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  • Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Eudomania at 01:07 on 06 May 2006
    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post to this site, having joined as a full member. I have just decided to publish my children's philosophical novel, Laura and Paul with a publish on demand company. It will cost about £1000. I put some sample chapters on this site 18 months ago and got 2 comments. When I first wrote the book in 1989 I sent it to Macmillan who wrote back saying they thought it was very interesting but it did not fit any of their lists. It is not classical children's fiction although it is a story, and it is not a classical education text although teachers use it, and it is not classical philosophy either. I have had similar responses from the few agents who ever wrote back. Has any one else had experience of self publishing? Would you recommend it?
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Account Closed at 07:07 on 06 May 2006
    First of all, welcome to the site, Eudomania!

    I would certainly recommend self-publishing, having done it myself twice a couple of years back - but £1000 is way too expensive. Unless you're doing zillions of copies (which I wouldn't advise)? I only spent c£300 on mine, if that's any guide. You don't mention the company you're going for, but I would recommend you check them out at the Editors/Preditors site - http://www.anotherrealm.com/prededitors - just in case.

    There's a lot about self-publishing on this site - one of our experts is very knowledgeable about it indeed - and there are bona fide companies which will do you a good deal, such as Antony Rowe down in Eastbourne. Good luck!

    A
    xxx
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Colin-M at 08:32 on 06 May 2006
    £1000 is a serious amount of cash. If you are really hell-bent on self publishing, then you'd be better off going to a proper, reputable, lithographic printers and tell them you want a long print run. £1000 might get you 700 books, unlike 100 books from a POD printer.

    However, the biggest drawback about self publishing is putting something out that isn't as good as it could be, or something you might regret at a later date. The second is distribution. Many POD books simply don't sell, not only because of price but because you can't get them to the public. Having them on Amazon isn't enough, besides the fact that many POD book incur a £1.99 finding fee from Amazon which puts any potential buyer off.

    If agents aren't taking the work, that in itself is a fair indication that it's either not ready, or won't sell (depending on how many agents you sent it to. I used to send in bulk, doing 12 agents at a time, and then receiving 12 rejections in a week! ) This is a hard pill to swallow, but if you really want to make it, it's worth perservering with.

    £1000 is a LOT of money. If you have it spare, you would be far better investing in an editorial service such as Cornerstones, or even a private, freelance editor.

    But before considering that, upload something here (again!) and see if it can be polished before submitting it to an editor.

    Generally speaking, POD really is vanity publishing, because it's only purpose is to make the author feel better for having a "real" book out there. The chances of it leading to a serious book deal are very, very slim. Whereas, the chances of getting a book deal by investing in editors and putting a couple of years work in, are substantially higher.

    (ps - I used to slag off editorial services!)
    Colin M
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Eudomania at 13:17 on 06 May 2006
    Thank you A,

    I was not sure whether it was appropriate to mention the name of the company - it is Trafford. And they do have cheaper packages, but i am considering their Best Seller package (the most expensive) because i have rheumatoid arthritis and cannot physically carry large numbers of books or pack and post books to people myself. So i wanted a service which will do all the packing and posting, and where people from e.g. Argentina or Singapore can order books directly.

    I figure i need to sell 400 books to cover the costs and i don't have much money because i had to stop my full time work some years ago ( as Director of a postgraduate centre at Glasgow University) because of illness, and now write and do some training as a self employed consultant.

    I have looked at some of the other self publishing sites, and for 400 books some of them are actually more expensive. Then last night after reading the article from the guardian which i found through Writewords, i tried Lulu. But after up loading Laura and Paul something is not working - i cant view the pdf they created or go any further. I hope this is a temporary glitch and not a real problem.

    The reason i am trying to get Laura and Paul published fast is that I am organising an international conference (june 17th) at which there will be potential buyers.

    thank you again,

    Catherine
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Eudomania at 13:34 on 06 May 2006
    Thank you Colin,

    After being on my own for so long (had to stop full time work in 1998 through illness) it is wonderful to get some feed back and advice. Why did I not do this years ago?

    I have just up-loaded the whole novel here.

    I should say that it is the Trafford Best Seller package which I am considering. They do have more basic cheaper packages.

    Mine is an unusual situation. Laura and Paul was featured in an hour long BBC documentary Socrates for six year olds in 1990. It is currently being shown on Sky and on the teachers channel. The documentary is used by teacher training colleges all over the world, and is sold by a charity here in the UK.

    But the book is not available for anyone who is interested. And I just never took advantage of this exposure to market my book.

    I need a company which will do all the physical work of packaging the book and sending it out as I cannot. And also a company which can manage international orders.


    It is a lot of money, which i can not really afford, but I missed the first international wave of publicity, and now there may be a small 'wave' which I must take advantage of.

    Thank you again for replying - all advice and feedback on the book, publishing, marketing is so valuable for me. I am trying to learn how to 'operate' in the commercial world , after a lifetime of sheltered academic experience.

    Catherine

  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Account Closed at 17:04 on 06 May 2006
    Aha! Now I understand a bit more. I think, from general comment elsewhere, that Trafford is okay - but can't speak from personal experience. And if you have a ready-made conference market and also media coverage already, then good luck with it!

    Let us know how you get on.

    A
    xxx
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by old friend at 14:19 on 07 May 2006
    Catherine,


    To an extent you have 'missed the boat' somewhat. From what you say it seems that the road to self-publishing is regarded by you as the only way you can progress with your book. You may well be right as the book was written quite some time ago but, more than that, it has received 'attention' from certain quarters which have provided 'marketing opportunities' that have gone cold.

    Even if you do not publish the book in time for the Exhibition you may be able to use that opportunity to announce imminent publication of the book, perhaps offer a CD of the book at a good price or even a voucher or discount against future orders when your book hits the market.

    What worries me a little more is that you seem so unclear as to the substance of your book and the audience to which it is aimed. You state what the book is not on certain levels but do not state what it IS. I can understand the it is perhaps a good reference item, even parhaps an excellent one but you seem to have the desire for people to read this and 'see' it as an entertaining read for children.

    I have started to read the work you uploaded but only to get a 'feel' of it. From the beginning I think there are quite a few points I would make on the writing, such as the use of 'sort of' and the lack of an opening that, in my opinion, fails to grip the reader.

    I can quite see the logic (or what I would better describe as the logistics of logic) but I cannot 'see' the characters. I do understand the thinking process of children and recall vividly a very yound nephew asking his mother 'If I were not me (I think he used "was") and here now, who would I be and where would I be?'

    Nevertheless, you have obviously put a great deal into the compilation of your book and have made up your mind to see it in print. I hope that the end result is great accclaim and very high sales. As HollyB says, 'do let us know how you get on'.

    Kindest regards,

    Len
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Eudomania at 15:54 on 07 May 2006
    Thank you Len,

    I did wonder about editing the text so that there were less occurrences of 'sort of' and 'like'. The language reflects the way children speak (at least the children with whom I worked), but is not good English.

    Your reply has made me revisit this question. I am still ambivalent - I know that children like it, but they will not be buying the book.

    I will also look again at the opening - perhaps open with something more dramatic.

    Can i say again - it is really good to get feed back, and thank you for taking the time.

    Catherine
  • Re: Self publishing children`s philosophical novel Laura and Paul
    by Colin-M at 16:18 on 07 May 2006
    I've to reflect Len's comments here. I haven't read enough to comment, but I read enough that if I was an agent, I would have rejected it. The idea of encouraging children to question is perfectly decent, and reminiscent of Alice's questions to herself in Alice in Wonderland, but that opening is very weak, and as soon as I hit the first hint that the girl and boy were twins, alarm bells started to ring. For some reason it's seen as a cliche, like beginning an adult novel with someone waking up with a hangover, surrounded by mess (I'm guilty of both!!)

    As for an audience liking books, this is something that came up on another thread. The general public (and kids) can't see the mistakes that agents and editors can, and occasionally books that are badly written do rather well, so if you've got an audience that like it, then something is definitely working. Maybe it just needs some attention in the structure and flow. I'll take another look when then kids are at school.

    Colin



    <Added>

    occasionally books that are badly written do rather well

    that didn't come out quite right. I was referring to novels like Shadowmancer and Alice in Wonderland.