As writers, we of all people should be especially aware of the power of words. This is just a request to members on site to avoid using words like 'amateur' when referring to another member's work. It's not constructive and against the spirit of WriteWords. Thanks.

Very valid point. Thank you for posting that Nell...

Ellie

Nell - very well said!!

Lots of love

Anne B

Nell

sadly only those who need to be reminded that will not agree with you, but that is a sad fact of life

take care

david

You took the words right out of my mouth Nell. This is a positive, constructive, workshop based site. Sometimes it is difficult to give crits but that's why we have site experts. I would hate to think anyone is being damaged or creatively inhibited by the use of negative words.

Julie

Hear, hear, Nell. It's a delicate matter, communicating via posted comments, and it's easy for meanings to go astray--but we (by which I mean, we who love the power and the infinite possibilities of words) surely have an especial duty of care in their use.

And "amateur" is not a particularly useful term, even if not intended pejoratively, even to describe 'novice' efforts. I have a few 'professional' stage & radio credits--but I haven't given up the day job yet (but oh, if only someday!). And I have recently found the temerity to try my hand at prose fiction, finding in WW a splendidly encouraging environment in which to try out a few fledgling flaps of the wings to learn what I can of the venerable craft from other (far more experienced and capable) practitioners. In this arena, I am most certainly an amateur--in precisely the same way I am an amateur parent, an amateur husband, and amateur human being for that matter: I don't have any professional qualifications for any of these things. But I'm here to learn, as I presume we all are.

There's nothing wrong with an amateur or amateurish. I'm one and you all are too! Now if you mean someone was trying to imply that that the work was simply rubbish and didn't have the balls to justify it then there is a point to be made.

As I've stated elsewhere, if you don't like the work and you cant offer a worthwhile comment then don't comment at all.

Jubbly no-one likes to offend people or upset them just for the sake of it (though I have seen one comment by a trial member like this). But if someone is hurt by a genuine comment from another site member then it is for them to deal with and get over. Part of sharing anything with the wider world means that you have to take the bad with the good. This applies to every sphere of human activity not just this site. As for being 'creatively inhibited', if someones comment causes this this then the writer needs to deal with these issues and not be put off. I'm not being harsh that's just the way life is, whether we like it or not.

I see this site as (other than being a good place to demo your pieces) paddling pool that will help ease those trying to get their work published into the wider world. Business, and that's what publsihing is, rarely if ever gives a stuff about the sensitivities of individuals.

Now this is just my view and was in no way intended to agitate, offend anyone else.

Geoff

Yeah geoff, I agree, it can be a big bad world and often a good kick up the ass is just what's needed. I was a stand up comic for ten years, I've had ash trays thrown at me and I've thrown a few back. Perhaps we shouldn't be too precious, but the point is - some people are thick skinned and others aren't, I hasten to add over the years I've developed the skin of Dinosaur.

Cheers

I find it unhelpful to see negative put downs on this site.. An awful lot of emphasis seems to suddenly be on whether one will do anything to get published or if one is a "serious" writer.. People write for all sorts of reasons.. pleasure mostly... and the need to paint a picture with words..We aren't all obsessed with being published.. but I have to say as a "novice" and an "amateur" in the main I have found this site a very positive learning experience..... so let's keep the spirit of WW that way.. positive, fair and kind..
sometimes less is more..

Ellie..

Well said, Tim.
We are all learning our craft. If I ever get to the stage where I think I know it all, I hope someone would throw me into the clutches of R. Mortis Esq.

But we won't learn if no-one points out what we are doing wrong. And this isn't like learning to drive. If no-one told us it's wrong to drive on the right hand side of the road we'd be dead. This isn't so simple. This is a very subjective business and one person's 'wrong' can be another person's 'perfect' but there are certain principles we all accept as 'right'.
When I first started writing I knew nothing. When I look back now, some of the early things I wrote make me squirm but, if no-one had shown me where I was going wrong, I would still be making the same mistakes.
As fellow writers, we don't do anyone any favours by not pointing out to them ways they can improve. Otherwise what is the purpose of reading out your work at a writers' circle or posting it on a site like this?

Dee.

I'm in raging agreement with you here--very good notes, Geoff, Julie, Dee et. al.

The thought occurs: there are degrees of resiliance, depending on experience, I suppose. F'rinstance, I think I'm pretty tough skinned about my plays, because I've worried away at that particular craft far longer than anything else, have worked my way through some early issues, and have real ambitions to achieve the very best possible. And what helps is blunt, honest, no-holds-barred comments from the audience--the final arbiters, after all. In other areas, I'm more tentative, more conscious of my shortcomings in the craft, and there maybe a little more fragile, perhaps--though I hope not too much so! But there is a big difference between "the story would be tighter in 1500 words rather than 2000" (true, I overwrite, and I can work at it) and "this is amateurish" (also true, but what do I specifically need to do to improve?). I think we're all saying the same thing. And Geoff makes an excellent point: if I post some absolute crap, no one is doing me a favour by saying it's great--but I don't see that happening in here.

Maybe it's sometimes worth making a distinction between commenting as a writer and as a reader. I do not have the expertise (yet, he says hopefully!) to offer much by way of practical suggestions to fiction writers (though I flatter myself I have some knowldge of stage writing), but I may sometimes think it worth responding as a 'reader,' indicating what worked/didn't work, without always being able to say quite why.

Or maybe we need a hard-core, S&M critical dungeon in here, a special group where you don't have to ask up front "tough or tender" :-)

Anyway--general thanks to everyone who has commented on things I've posted; I've never found anything other than helpful.

P.S. If anybody throws another ashtray at you, Julie--let the writers know, we'll sort 'em!

I don't think we can deal in 'wrong' or 'rights' on WW, only 'other ways of doing something' towards getting our work looking better. Am I wrong? LOL. (By the way I hate LOL, and those balls of Edam cheese with faces, but sometimes you just have to use the conventions if no-one can see that you're actually smiling).