Steve,

You've deleted all your work. Please come back. I saw Dee's comment to your request last night but was too tired to reply. I didn't imagine for one moment that you were asking for a full edit, I just wanted to make it clear that I'd give you my impressions of the early draft without noting the typos. If you want to WW mail me the piece in question please do, but don't disappear.

Steve please come back. I was concerned when I saw that posting also.

LOL

Julie

I thought this was a site where we could be honest with each other. I thought the point of uploading work was to invite candid opinions. That’s why I do it. Obviously I love the positive comments – that’s only natural – but I also appreciate the criticisms; perhaps more so. Better to have another site member tell me my last line is ‘cheesy’ (Skipoo commenting on ‘The Bench’) than have my hopes falsely raised.

I have had my share of harsh and painful criticism of my work in the past but I didn’t throw my teddy out of the pram. I didn’t give up. I re-wrote and wrote again. I joined writing classes and writers groups. I read how-to books. I searched the internet for advice. I learned from others. I joined this site with the same attitude. I want to learn and I want to share. I want honesty from other people whose work I admire. I am quite astonished by the consistently high standard of writing – both prose and poetry – on this site. That’s why I keep banging on about it to everyone I know who is remotely interested in writing. That’s why I continue to contribute to this site.

Nell, If you are suggesting that my comment caused someone to leave the site then I am sorry indeed. I don’t believe that’s the case. This wouldn’t be the first time you have misunderstood something I said.
I do believe that talent will out; that serious writers can roll with the blows and bounce back. If they can’t take criticism they sure as hell won’t cope with the inevitable rejections from agents or publishers. It’s hard but, by god, it makes the rewards so much more tasty.
However, I will accept the majority verdict. If this is not the place for frankness and honesty then I will continue to contribute to the forums but I will not invite or offer any more comments on posted work.

Dee.

Dee, if it wasn't a betrayal of confidence I would copy and paste his email to me here. I may be partly to blame for saying that if the piece in question was a rough draft that I would read it for content rather than note typos, and I've apologised privately for posting a comment that you seemed to misunderstand. The misunderstanding in both instances you mention were yours, not mine. And I stand by the statement that the word 'amateur' in relation to any piece of work on this site is insensitive and not in the spirit of WriteWords.

Ladies please,

I've just read this thread as it was the latest one to be commented on and felt I had to say something.

Now I'll start by saying that I haven't seen the comments referenced in relation to your 'disputes' and Steve's disappearance. But what we all have to accept is that we all have our own opinions, and you are (as far as I'm concerned) quite free to air them.

But please please please don't post comments that are quite clearly digs at each other.

Now regarding the comments themselves Dee is quite correct when she states that this is a site for honest opinions. I personally like the comments on my work to be as brutal as possible. If you just don't like a piece and can't offer any valid or constructive comment then just don't post anything. It's that simple. That's what I do.

If Steve has indeed removed work because of comments posted on it then that is for him to deal with. Regardless of whether you are posting something simply for pleasure or to hone it commerically, you should be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.

As for the amateur thing. We are all amateurs, every one of us. There is no shame in that, it's not degrading or insensitive. I don't think any of us make a living from writing, with the exception of a few site experts.

Geoff

Guidelines: We want this site to be a positive experience for all our users - please make all comments as constructive as possible !

That's very true Nell, but positive experience does not mean you only say nice things about work. It means you should provide something useful for the author to take away, think over.

Again if you don't like something and can't offer any insight or constructive criticism. Don't post. But don't for one second think that the guidelines (whare are only guidelines) mean you have to praise work.

Geoff

I think the point is, it's fine to have an opinion and be honest but there are ways to express your feelings without being too brutal. The difficulty in posting is simply we can't tell how the other person is receiving the comment. Face to face is a whole different scenario as are writers groups in real life. A lot of the crits given are subjective and that is probably unavoidable. Let's just try and be sensitive, constructive and get on with this glorious activity - writing.

Geoff, it's not what you say, but the way that you say it.

Confucius, he say..."Comments may come from good writer or bad writer, but good writer comments may be bad and bad writer comments may be good for good writer may be good writer but bad commentator and bad writer may be bad writer but good commentator"

By the time you've thought about that one the problem's gone away.

Can anyone tell me how I can get that <Added> thing onto comments one makes? Thought I'd slip that one in to change the subject.

Len

Len, you should have 'Owner Edit' at the top of your posting. Just click on it and type in the box.

Dee, Hello. I've just read what you've written about not posting any more comments on posted work, and wanted to say, please don't do that! I don't know what went on before, I've been slightly absent lately with too much work on my plate and a horrible problem with my email system, but I think these kind of things are to do not with the actual sentiment, but the words we use. I know ocassionally I've written something, and then thought No, I want to say that in a different way, or realised that I was off target with a piece of writing. I'm not suggesting you were in this case, because I haven't read it, but one good thing we can do if something goes all off centre is to write straight back and say so. I've definitely done that once or twice. And again I'm not saying that what I've just said is relevant to what happened here, only that there are certain ways each of us can evolve in communicating in WW that prevent misunderstandings etc. This is now sounding like a lecture which is definitely not what I intended. But trust is important here, and in a way I'd put that way up the list, because although honest crits are definitely what WW is about, sometimes a writer has to feel trust before taking a crit on board. So it's an element to work on as well I reckon. Everybody needs to feel comfortable here. That's why we don't like comments to become 'personal'. This is not just written to you specifically, more a general view in the aftermath of whatever it was. Do you think the winter is getting to us all. We are in need of some jokes. The forum about random phrases is a good one to bring some smiles back.
All the best Becca.

Becca Geoff and Len, thanks for your comments and your support. It is much appreciated. I do understand what you are saying, Becca, about trust but still wonder how we can ‘trust’ compliments if we feel unable to criticise. So, while I may contribute at some time in the future, at the moment I don't feel able to risk being shot down in flames again.

I could say a lot more but I can see that you are trying to put an end to this dismal business and I appreciate that too. So let’s draw a line under it.

Dee.

Hi Dee, for me I think it works something like this: the writers who have looked at my work on this site and who I've been talking to for a long time now, I know will always crit me fairly and often strongly, and I will always take what they say precisely as it's mean't because I trust them. I think they trust me too in my return criting of their work. So in these relationships a great deal can be said in the knowledge that no-one will be offended. We're more likely to laugh than anything else. But none of that happened over night. I'd like the whole site to be like that, but that means I have to work to make it that way, and I think a lot of other people do that too. It's an atmosphere we're trying to nurture, and there are different approaches needed in different situations in order to develop it. It doesn't go against the idea of honesty, and I'm sure you wouldn't have thought it did, I'm just thinking here as I write... It's more that since there are so many different ways to say the same thing, we can chose them. Did I spell 'chose' right, something I frequently got wrong, and got taught to spell right, only I was so ashamed about it, I've got muddled again. A bit like the word 'mbu' in Swahili which means mosquito and penis, depending on the emphasis. You can imagine me coming out of the bush to the Livingstone Hotel and asking the man behind reception if he 'Could give me a room with no mbu in it' can't you?
Becca.

I know you don't like them but...
Thanks. That made me laugh.
Dee.