After reading so much about rejections on this site I have to ask published authors: how did you do it?

Okay, talent. I know that (hopefully) has to be in the mix somewhere. Obviously you are all talented beyond the reach of our meagre offerings. What I want to know is do the postings of the submission - rejection circle ring any bells with you, and how many times did you get rejected? Or was it more a case of knowing someone who could put your work before the right pair of eyes? Or did you build up a reputation first, via short stories, articles, etc? Or something else?

I am sure that a lot of people would be interested if you could share your experiences of this and maybe give us hope (though won't make up for my lack of talent!)

Lies, deceit, bribary and sex.

Good question James/Anthony, it would be interesting to hear from published authors.

IB - are you listing the best parts?

I hope to be published some day, and I don't think I would like people to think that the only reason why I got published is because I or someone lied, deceived, bribed or slept around. You really are too cynical! Whatever happened to your positive thinking book???

But then again, maybe I wouldn't care that much what people thought, as long as I and the people who really matter around me know the truth...and in the end...I'm published!!

Nahed

My first book was rejected 14 times. This was back in the early 80s and at that time I thought this was outrageous, given how brilliant I thought the book was. I had no idea then how to write a covering letter, present a manuscript properly, write a synopsis, etc. Most of the rejections were standard but one arrived (from Andre Deutsch) in which the editor said there was much she liked but ... Not appreciating the etiquette of refraining from arguing over rejections, I phoned her up and, well, argued. She invited me to the office and said that she would consider the book if I made some pretty big changes. Swallowing my pride (and remembering the 14 rejections) I agreed. The book was published and had some good reviews. However, I had my next two manuscripts rejected before Andre Deutsch accepted the third. This is something not often talked about, that just because you’ve been published doesn’t mean everything you write will be accepted. It’s perhaps also worth bearing in mind that publishing was changing at about this time. The days of the editor who commissioned, edited and published all by herself were just about over. Today, if an editor likes a book she has to sell it to the acquistions committee, ‘sell’ being the operative word. Since then, I have had other books published but plenty rejected too. What have I learnt? Well, the first most important thing is that your book must be as good as you can make it before submission. These days, editors and agents do not have time to edit as they used to, and therefore expect to receive manuscripts already at a professional standard. This means that for most, if not all, new writers and probably old ones too, you need to get your manuscript edited properly, not just in terms of grammar and punctuation, but also in respect of its plot, characterisation, consistency, etc, before you submit it. Apart from that, you need to make your submission as attractive as possible to the editor/agent. Remember, they don’t owe you anything: you want something from them. Provide what they ask for, both in terms of the kind of book they’re looking for and in presentation. Be professional without being boring and, above all, be persistent.

Of course, there is a kind of Catch-22 in this: that to stand a chance of getting published, a new writer now has to write something that's publishable. Or to put it another way, he or she has to be able to produce a professionally written script without the experience of being a professional. My own view is that these days, new writers have to get professional help.

It's understandable that writers become frustrated at being rejected, and it's tempting to ease this pain by viewing editors and agents as dismissive ogres. But in my experience, of children's editors at least, this is not the case. Most have a real passion for books and, pressures of the market notwithstanding, want desperately to see good ones succeed. For example, my first editor (mentioned above) is in her 70s but still works part-time for a publisher because she loves children's books, the thrill of discovering a good new one, and the satisfaction of helping an author improve a manuscript.

IB, I am willing to shag you to get published.

Was that too rude?

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Ohh, I got so excited about the thought of me and IB I forgot to thank Terry for his reply.

Very kind and very interesting.
I think a lot of us are so close to our mauscripts, its hard to see that they lack something, be that the quality of the writing or the professionalism of the submission. It certainly give me something to think about.

Now back to thoughts about IB...

Yes!

Terry,

Thanks very much for taking the time to give us your thoughts. You have confirmed something I have long suspected, that far too many budding writers are thumping out a manuscript and blindly sending it off in the hope that the fish will bite (presumably these writers then think they can polish off the rough edges after it gets accepted). I can see the reason for this - people are reluctant to expend a substantial effort fine-tuning a novel that might never be accepted. As a consequence (not helped by the proliferation of word-processors, either) it is no wonder the agents and publishing houses are overwhelmed with vast amounts of unpublishable work.

I would suggest that writers need to examine their work in microscopic detail before submitting, otherwise it's rejection is inevitable. Whenever I pass my critical eye (I'm no expert by the way) over a piece of writing, even a single mistake - spelling or grammatical - is enough to put me off completely. As you say, this attention to detail is what sorts the amateurs from the professionals.

Nigel

<Added>

Tch! I've just noticed my own grammatical error "it's"

Hello,

The reply from Terry is spot on and in particular when he refers to submitted work being 'professional' in every way possible.

My past experience covered the Magazine and Newspaper field and I had a fair amount of work published. Terry writes specifically of the book publishing field but his wise words apply equally to other media.

Editors are not your enemies, nor are they your friends. They are predominantly business people skilled in their contribution to the literary world and to the demands of the market and their employers. Your submission may have to pass through several 'vetting processes' which means that at all stages you face a rejection. What do you do? You ensure that your work is the very best you can produce and you keep on submitting!

If you have had a genuine publishing house accept your work then I suppose you may be called 'professional'. However in terms of 'quality of writing' there are a number of unpublished writers whose work merits a 'professional' tag just as there are many others who can write but will never make it - professionally.

Len

James, do check out the interviews- not all our interviewees go into massive detail but they usually share their breakthrough moment/first agent or publisher.

I wrote plays and put them on myself and through that, doing press and publicity, got asked to write a short story for a magazine because they liked the style of my theatre work. One thing led to another... In the theatre world, you get just as odd rejections though, no matter how experienced you are- I had a theatre tell me last year they didn't understand my work. Take that as a no, then. But that simply means it's not for them- someone else loved it and commissioned it. You're right to ask for the good stories, it's too easy (and depressing) to focus on the negative impact of rejection letters.

James, alas I lack the power to get you published.

I’ve struggled with the professional/amateur question where writers are concerned. As Len says, editors are professional people working for businesses that want to make a profit. By contrast, most writers start off (and many continue) as hobbyists. Obviously, that can be part of the charm of a novelist, at least. A friend of mine is a successful management coach/trainer and he is often surprised at how different the world of writing is. For example, he has a mentor who he sees as indispensable to his development as a coach. He was not convinced by my argument that in the writing world it isn’t really like that, and actually I no longer am, even though it may be more difficult to find a writer/mentor. Similarly perhaps, if he goes on a training course to develop a new skill, he will probably pay around £4-500 per day. Most creative writing courses are a fraction of that. Obviously, most writers can’t afford more and yet I do believe there is a principal behind what my friend is saying that isn’t just about costs. I think Nigel makes a fair point about budding writers thumping out a manuscript and sending it off in the hope a fish will bite. It won’t.

The growing-up aspect of this, for me, has been to accept the struggle of on the one hand being professional (in the writing itself and in my approach, presentation, timeliness, dealings with others, etc) while on the other, trying to produce work that has the fizz and originality of the inspired hobbyist.

IB that is the first time I HAVEN'T been rejected today

Just thought; I think even God lacks the power to get me published

my aunt and her partner are both published writers (playwrites) but refuse to help me, (unless there are others around in which case they'll tell me off for not asking them sooner) (grr)

but that just feeds me,

I've posted this same suggestion to the Fiction I writers group and wondered if I could highlight it here:

I've been reading some really wonderful work on this web site and have been receiving some great feedback on my own work too ... While not wanting to go on about how unfair the current system is (rejection letters/slush piles etc.), I do feel it is sad that some gifted amateurs cannot even get a 'look in' with agents and publishers. Would it be possible to DO something constructive about this - perhaps with a regulated recognised clearing system or something along the lines of the point system on this web site for instance.

Would it be at all possible to have a 'marking' system whereby authors submit their work (without their name on the work) to a particular section of this site, and every member has the opportunity (or is obliged) to rate a script between a high and low scoring system (i.e. 1-10) - with each reader able to offer only one score. The scripts could be sifted on a monthly basis, with the five highest scoring being recommended to an agent (perhaps one that has subscribed to, or been interviewed on this site) or publisher/producer.

Some thoughts from other members on this subject would be interesting to contemplate.

Many thanks
K