Yes, me again. The good thing about discussions in print is, unlike in person, you can come back days later and say 'and another thing'!

I just wanted to clarify something. The point I was haplessly attempting to make about popularity (when I got sidetracked by Robbie Williams) was the reason 'traditional' chick lit (by which I mean single woman in the city/Bridget Jones type books) was so popular is because it was meaningful to women. It spoke to women's fears and insecurities and experiences in a way nothing ever had before.

A lot of the anti-chick lit vitriol (I don't mean here, but I do mean vitriol) has also been anti-women and that is why I think we feel so strongly about it and why some people don't and will probably never understand.

On the subject of vitriol Curtis Sittenfeld went from

'To suggest that another woman's ostensibly literary novel is chick lit feels catty, not unlike calling another woman a slut -- doesn't the term basically bring down all of us?'

while promoting her first book, to

'if my greatest fear was that people would see my book as chick lit, I wouldn’t have chosen this title.'

which gives an indication of how defining something as chick lit can be a powerful marketing tool.

She goes on ..

'I would not consider it chick lit by my own definition (and I’ve realized that there’s no larger consensus about what the definition of chick lit is) ... Basically, the book is what it is no matter what you call it or where you place it in the store. Also, I think this ... is very interesting to publishing insiders ... and not at all interesting to general readers. They just want to read a book they like.'

Interesting, no?

Keris x

Wonderful points Keris (as always). I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Someone once said to me that my book would be the kind sold in Tesco with a cerise pink cover- well if that is how I Jo(sephine) Public reading and thinking about the fundamental issues affecting modern women at the moment then that is fine by me.
I'm proud to be a chick-litter and to add to the quotes you have posted, this one from Marian Keyes always stands out for me

“It could be counterproductive if I start getting a bit ranty, because people won’t read me then. So it has to be very subtly done. You’ve got to lure people in with the lighthearted story, and then, at the heart of it, have the very serious story.You’ve got to go, ‘Shoes, shoes, shoes! Handbags, chocolate!Women’s rights'.”

Thanks, Lola. Love that Marian quote too.

K x

Alexandra, great idea!

Sarah

Sarah,

YAY! something did happen out of this monster-sized thread.

Alexandra

I'm coming late to this (hols), so maybe no-one will read this, but...
why not just have Women's Fiction I (formerly chick Lit), then us in Women's Fiction as Women's Fiction II. As has been said, Chick lit as such is diversifying and at the end of the day is read by women.

I can't get steamed up or take offence by any of the comments here (my present book is supposedly mum lit). I just write to entertain, i don't want to make any deep observations about the human condition or change anyone's life. When i pick up a book in this genre, for me it's like switching on Fools & Horses or Desperate Housewives - i want to escape, know i'm going to be entertained and not have to think too much. I don't think this undervalues this genre or means that the authors aren't as passionate as any other writer. I'm not saying either that all chick litters feel like me. People buy all sorts of books for all sorts of reasons and i think it's great how the book market has diversified over recent years and caters for many popular needs.

Casey

<Added>

BTW we never get any site experts critting in Women's Fiction either, so it's not just a prejudice/lack of interest against chick litters.

<Added>

+BTW i don't mean to patronise any of you who got steamed up - i'm just feeling especially mellow after my hols:)

I should add, I'm happy to crit work in the Women's Forum and/or Chick Lit when I come out of the horrendous work-jam I'm in at the moment. PM me.

That would be great, Kate No pressure though, your present workload sounds...challenging!

Casey

I still for a YA chick lit group as chick lit isn't at home in the current YA one.

I've sent some WW mails on this but they're being ignored.

alexandra

Not ignored - just behind schedule (;
The new chick lit group is now set up, we've decided to go for simply 'Chick Lit II' for now, but if it has an emphasis on Young Adult Chick Lit, that will be very fine.