Funny, Jem, I just emailed Luisa about this earlier.

There's very little of the "traditional" boy meets girl chick lit around, IMO.

I mean, yes, usually there is a boy, i.e. there is a romance angle, but that's often not the main thrust (as it were) of the book.

The girl in the city with a glamorous (or drudgerous) job and too many shoes, but who just can't seem to meet (or keep) a man is a chick lit cliche, but it's also a bit late nineties (a lot of people's definition of chick lit is based entirely on Bridget Jones and/or Sex and the City). There's a lot more variety in chick lit these days. Dare I say as much variety as in other genre fiction. *ducks*

Basically any book with a female protagonist is likely to be classed as chick lit because, lest we forget, it's just a marketing term and one that works.

In fact, if you mosey on over to the chick lit group here on WW you'll see we're writing about quite varied subjects - and in differing styles - ourselves.

Wow. That was a relatively sober post, for me. My medication must've finally kicked in.

Keris x

So? What are we doing?

I'm just gonna keep asking til we get there.

Actually,

I think I'm going to start a rebel uprising. I might just quit all the groups I'm in and start a

rebel welcome

group. And everyone can write whatever the hell they want for all I care...:-)

Alexandra

<Added>

oops, should be 'rebelS welcome' of course

I think we should just leave things as they are.

No, seriously, I don't mind - whatever makes everyone happy. I just don't want to break up our happy band of chicklitters ...

K x

P.S. Oh god, Alexandra, this isn't going to be like the username thing, is it?

I think we should just leave things as they are.

Yes but aren't we ALL joining Terry's YA group now?

Hehehe, only kidding, Terry.

Oh, well I don't know what chicklit is any more. Me, I just like a good book and you can call it what the 'ell you want!

YES but not as bad, the *^&%*R£$$"%$ Username will never die down as an issue, whereas here I'm just trying to get people back on the topic at hand. That's what I do at work. Which makes this my night job or something, except I'm a lot nicer on here. Trust me.

There's nothing wrong with being a commercial writer, as long as that's what you consciously choose to be. But the path to being one is different in many respects to that of the writer who primarily wants to be say something. Commercial writers, for example, see publishing primarily as a business, and they produce the products that such a business requires. They don't, as a rule, write anything that isn't commissioned first. And they do as little re-writing as possible.

First of all, as a writer I want to appeal commercially AND say something. My first novel (And I'm using personal example because I can obviously vouch for my motives) aims to empower women, boost self esteem and deals with issues such as Post Natal Depression, relationship breakdown and whether or not strong family bonds still exist.
There might not be lots of big words, but it is trying to say something.

Second of all, I do not see what I do as a business. I write because I want to. I work full time as a journalist, that is a business- writing is a passion.

As for re-writing- I would argue with you on that point to. A visit to chick lit would show just how much rewriting goes on.

And I've just realised that this all died down- but my blood was boiling at that.

Good point, we do re-write a lot. If I have to look at Pod chapter one, once again, I think I might shred it or something.

I didn't see that quote before, Lola (I must've skipped straight to the Robbie bit!) and it just highlights to me the fact that we're (by which I mean us chicklitters and Terry) are at cross-purposes.

The above may apply to "packaged" writers, for example, but I don't think anyone here has packaging as their goal (correct me if I'm wrong). Unless he meant it as a general statement and he wasn't referring to us at all.

Doesn't "commercial" fiction just mean fiction that sells (and literary means fiction that doesn't) after all?

K x

(by which I mean us chicklitters and Terry) are at cross-purposes.

Cross purposes or just different minds?

I think I'm done with this thread too now, I'll just wait and see what happens...!!

Alexandra

I wasn't referring to chick litters. I was trying to draw a distinction between two different approaches to writing, that turn up in whatever genre you're working in. And I realise I implied that writers who aren't primarily commercially minded don't want to make money, but that's not what I meant. Like Lola, I'm trying to write fiction that has something to say and can sell.

However, I think it's important to realise that it's very difficult to do both. For example, if you write science fiction, say, then you're faced with the option of writing a different book about a different subject each time, or you can find a niche within the genre and stick to it. Publishers prefer you to do the latter because then they can brand you. Science fiction could be said to have a much more supportive and involved readership than most genres, but even there, it's risky to write completely different novels each time. I spoke to a science fantasy writer called Jeff Vandermeer recently. He is a brilliant writer, and strongly motivated by the desire to produce good writing. However, he was saying that he faces constant pressure to produce fiction that's more mainstream and brandable.

And in children's fiction, which I know well, it's getting to the stage where writers will simply be ditched by their publishers if they don't keep producing the same book time after time.

And in children's fiction, which I know well, it's getting to the stage where writers will simply be ditched by their publishers if they don't keep producing the same book time after time.

Too true, that. The last time I met with a publisher to discuss my work she said she'd loved my novel but wouldn't publish it because it 'didn't fit'. She then showed me their catalogue and asked me whether I'd consider writing 'something more along these lines'.

I said I'd continue to write what moved me to write. And that was the end of that relationship!

It seems that the writers in the Chick Lit group have the same intention - to stick to what makes them feel passionate, and hope someone will love it so much that they don't care whether it's an obvious fit.

any book with a female protagonist is likely to be classed as chick lit

I think this is absolutely true. Teen Chick Lit books were just called 'books' when I was growing up, as far as I know.

Alexandra, good for you for trying to get us back on track! I've emailed David Bruce now, and I suppose we'll wait and see what happens.

How about a new group called Mixed Lit, or something?

Maybe that's just Fiction, of course.

writers will simply be ditched by their publishers if they don't keep producing the same book time after time

Sssh, I don't want to hear about any downside!
La-la-la! (Head goes in the sand.)

Luisa

She then showed me their catalogue and asked me whether I'd consider writing 'something more along these lines'.

This is so sad and good for you for sticking up for yourself. And, without sounding like an "anal retentive dinosaur" - and only based on what I've heard myself from publishers and from other chicklitters who've been submitting - indicative of what's wrong with publishing today.

Then again, it's just like the music industry. James Blunt was hugely successful so now we've got James Morrison too (and many many more on the way if MySpace Music is any indication)! Actually, I was going to come here and recant my (joke) popularity argument after hearing someone on the radio say "James Blunt's sold 10 million albums so he's obviously a huge talent". Er .. no. Then again weren't the Beatles told that guitar bands were over? Just like chicklit is dead ...

Anyway, what was my point? Oh yes. So Myrtle a publisher told you to write "something more along these lines" and an agent told me my books was too similar to something another author of theirs was writing. Rock: have you met hard place?

Oh and Terry, apologies for misunderstanding you again. We're so different. I'm starting to think our love will never work.

Keris x

P.S. Even though I'm very very scared of confrontation and if we were having this discussion in person I'd have run away crying long since, I'm enjoying this thread.