We've ammended the groups policy slightly for the busier groups. For most groups the rule will remain 3 months of inactivity leads to removal. We've decided it's only fair to all members to shorten this for the busier groups, particular where someone has joined and not contributed at all since that time. In such cases the removal time will now be just one month.

Seems fair. I know I've joined groups before and promptly forgot all about them.

Colin M

A good start. Now there is still the problem of commitment i.e. group members commiting to comment on other group members work.

I think I may have missed something in the shuffle here,

the problem of commitment i.e. group members commiting to comment on other group members work

Do we commit to do this? To be honest this can take up a lot of time, reading and then commenting. I do try to get round as many people as possible and to respond to people who take the trouble to comment on my stuff, but at the end of the day I am a story writer not a letter writer. I don't want to spend all my time in an endless round of 'I loved this, but' and/or 'Thanks for commenting'.

Besides, I think some people may be intimidated by the idea of expressing an opinion when they are not really sure they have one.

Now,I am blessed with big feet and an even bigger mouth which is helpful when I am trying to fit one into the other. So I have no problem with sticking my oar in and saying what I think and I think we should be careful before we apply to many rules and regulations.

I love this site and the free flow of information and I love the way it seems to bimble along without anyone really interfering with it. Please can we let it stay that way as far as possible.

I don't want to feel I am required to use some kind of literary rhythm method, where I only have so many days to respond before I miss my chance till next month or worse still get thrown out of a group altogether. Incidentally can we extend the period of grace to six weeks rather than a month, no good reason other than it is half of three months
And may I point out there are two free places in Flash Fiction that nobody seems to want!

The main strength of this site is that everyone supports everyone else. Please lets us keep it that way and build in as few restrictions as possible.

Best wishes

John

I wasn't really thinking rules as such, maybe guidelines. I wouldn't expect everyone in a novel group to follow all the novels, but maybe two or three. My point is, what is the point of having a group if you don't have some sort of group solidarity? It works well in the flash group, but flashes are shorter so it's easier to comment on a few at a time.

If you are looking for group solidarity, e.g. should it not be up to the group to work out some kind of regulatory sytem of their own that is, one that is agreed by all the members of that group.

Every group has a host to keep tabs on things or perhaps a group member would volunteer.

You could even pass the job around so it doesn't become too onerous.

Flash run their challenges this way and so far have done so for over a year.

Just a thought.

John

I think you're both right, Prospro and eg.

The whole point of a group is for the members within it to be helpful and supportive, but that should, I feel, come naturally and without the need for the imposition of rules. It's just a matter of courtesy.

Cheers,

Nik.

Oops, sorry I spelled your name wrong Prospero. It's an afflictionnn I semmm to havve.

Nik

These changes in the three month rule for the busier groups sound fair to me, David. Of course, it does beg the question of what constitutes a 'busier' group.

In respect of controlling peoples commitment to the group, especially in terms of their activity in commenting on other people's work, I'm not sure rules or guidelines would help here. In many cases they might actually do more harm than good and deter some from joining a group in order to post their work.

I was wondering if this non-involvement (in terms of commenting) was actually self-regulatory to some degree. It's probable that established members will tend to look at the work of new members and give them the benefit of their experience (?) and advice (??). But I wouldn't be surprised to find that if someone were to comment two or three times on an individual's work, and there was no attempt by that other person to reciprocate (sorry, couldn't think of a better word) the chance of more comments is likely to fall away quite rapidly. (Does that make sense? Probably not.)

j

I've recently become a member and have joined two groups, Flash Fiction and Journalism. Now I've joined, I have sense of committment which will drive me along a little, which is a good thing. Only yesterday I was wondering if there was a time limit to group membership if there was no contribution. It seemed a shame to take up space, particularly in a very active group. Your note was very timely. I think its a good idea. I better get writing.

I agree with Jumbo - great rule. What we seem to be getting at is selfishniess. If a person posted nothing but a a piece of work every two days then, regardless of his actual "contribution" to the the group, said member would still be "active." I think that's what needs to be changed, and it's not really David's problem, nor should it be. If a person wants or expects comments on his or her work, then they should be prepared to give the same back in return. It's only fair. I understand that that's not gonna happen all the time but...

'Scuze me, while I step down from my soap box!

Nik

Jumbo,

Just had to comment on your comment. It made me laugh. Loved this bit

‘I am blessed with big feet and an even bigger mouth which is helpful when I am trying to fit one into the other’.

And this,

‘I don't want to feel I am required to use some kind of literary rhythm method, where I only have so many days to respond before I miss my chance till next month or worse still get thrown out of a group altogether.’

Truly inspired. Lovely writing. Oh sorry… all this stuff about commenting on peoples work got me carried away. (I just read your latest story with the steamy sex scene by the way and know why this sort of metaphor sprang to your mind.)

In all seriousness, I loved the above. I also agree with a lot of what you say (actually all of it). Rules tend to be stuffy. I agree with what you said about self regulating. I know it works fro me. If I comment on somebody’s work and never get any reciprocation I eventually stop. In one group I was in there was a member who joined. Posted about three stories. Had a number of comments on their work from most members of the group and has never bothered to comment on anybody else’s work. They even had the temerity to post a group thread whining that they were not getting enough comments. Some people just don’t get it. Took a lot of tongue biting for me to stay silent on that one.

I find, that for me anyway, you tend to find people in your group whose work you enjoy reading and feel you may be able to offer constructive criticism on and whose opinions you value on your work. Over time you get to know one another and also can spot when the other’s work isn’t up to standard. You develop a relationship of sorts with them and feel more free to say what you are really thinking about their work even if you might otherwise consider it a little too critical. The relationship and support you have with them makes you confident it will be taken in the manner it was meant. These people I tend to make an extreme effort to comment on their work in a timely way. If possible I love to see the ‘be the first to comment on so and so’s work’. I find with those people you get total reciprocity and that is where I personally get the most out of this site.

I like the idea of booting non contributors out. If they don’t want to contribute fine. But then make room for someone who does.

Anyway I think I’ve rambled on enough.

Brian.

I hate to go over old ground on this but what does contribute really mean? I am re-writing my novel and not ready to workshop any of it but I have posted a few poems. I am a member of two groups but my main reason for joining WW is to learn through reviewing others' work. This means that I have probably commented more than I have been commented on (if you know what I mean). Does this mean that from the group perspective I have not 'contributed' because I have not posted a short story? Would be interested to know. S

Shika

I would say - absolutely not!!

The problem (horrible negative word) seems to arise when people post lots of their own work, hoping and expecting critique and comments - but will not comment on anyone else's work.

btw,good luck with the writing. When will we get the chance to see it?

All the best

jumbo

Hi Shika,

I find myself agreeing with Jumbo again. By non contributers I mean people who don't take the time to comment on other peoples work despite receiving comments on their own.

Brian.