We're thinking about running a Q and A forum thread with a few literary consultancies and scouts for agents, as this is always a hot topic- would people post questions here and then if there's enough interest we'll get a few responders? Btw,. if anybody is at a loss, agent-scouting is when a literary or editorial consultancy channels scripts/books through to agents they have contacts with, usually in return for a 'finder's fee.' Let's not have a big debate on the rights or wrongs of all of this!- not on this thread- but serious questions if you want them answered.

Anna, you don't want a debat but I think it's fair enough to ask why you're giving space and publicity on this site to some practices which some of your members will have moral concerns about. Specifically, I do not understand the justification for taking a fee for finding an agent, who is then going to have to find a publisher. It means the author is in effect paying a finder's finder fee.

If you go ahead, my serious question is: why don't literary consultancies charge a finder's fee for placing one of their client's books direct with a publisher instead of an agent? That would be reasonable.

The moral dubiousness is this: a literary consultancy works on an author's book and they get paid the agreed fee for doing so. If that book is then good enough to attract an agent's attention - who is only a finder, remember, not a buyer - why exactly is a literary consultancy needed? The author can simply send the book direct to agents. Another moral concern is that literary consultancies don't know all agents, therefore they are presenting authors with a limited choice of their mates. Given that the advance is often all that an author will get from their book, I'm concerned that you're giving space and time to a system that will take 25% of it from them (in most cases).


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I'm sure you don't want a debat! But you don't want a debate, either.

Terry, Anna is only suggesting a Q&A. I don't think there is any need to have conversation yet again! You might disagree with lit consultancies and that's fair enough. But a great number of people, myself included, have had some really useful help from them. I don;t see the harm in a Q&A like this.

Caroline, I didn't say I don't agree with Lit. Consultancies. I said some of their practices raise moral questions. It would be nice to say 'all good' or 'all bad' but it's not that neat and tidy.

I just think this is becoming a tired old pony of a conversation, that's all. Has been debated so many times.

So, what's your position about paying a finder to find a finder?

Discussed this at length last time! Sorry, I just can;t be bothered to do it again. Not meaning to be rude but it's rehashing a conversation over and over again, in my view.

I think the debate has been had elsewhere, and no doubt can and will be had again... but as I say, this would be a place to post questions and find out more from the lit/ed consultancies themselves. Or not, as the case may be. If anyone is interested in posting a question and we get enough, then we'll get some answers. There's nothing in it for us at WriteWords, other than...some possibly interesting answers.

This thread sounds interesting. I had a consultancy with Cornerstones. At first I was all sort of 'what', 'how' and edgy about it. After I made the changes,my story has become stronger but I do have an agent asking to look at it without the changes (found him myself). They are also super with helping me with my query letter and the dreaded synopsis.

So I guess my question would be how sure are they that the changes they suggest will get one published? Also, when one makes the changes does it mean the consultants will find you an agent?

Anna, fair enough.

In case anyone's interested, this is how I stand on the subject. When someone comes to me for help with their book, I explain very clearly what I will and won't do. One thing I won't do is recommend their work to an agent or publisher. I feel this is important to establish at the outset, otherwise your client is going to have blurred expectations from you. What I will do, is make suggestions about how they might submit their work, if we both agree it's at that stage. On rare occasions I've suggested a specific agent or editor. What I would never do is charge a percentage of their advance if they went on to get their book published. If anyone on WW wants to explain to me how such a charge is fair, reasonable and moral, please do. I nearly added 'legal' in there because when this practice first came to light, I consulted a colleague in Trading Standards who gave the opinion that this may well constitute a misuse of the provision of services.

I'd be interested to know how the rise of digital publishing is affecting these agencies.

Are they finding business is going up, perhaps because more people are self-publishing and therefore see these agencies as some kind of replacement for the feedback they might get from agents or publishers?

Or is business dwindling, perhaps, because, conversely, more people are self-publishing and not seeking an agent.

Or perhaps they don't think self/publishing or the digital rise is having much of an effect on them.

I'd be interested to know how the rise of digital publishing is affecting these agencies. Are they finding business is going up, perhaps because more people are self-publishing and therefore see these agencies as some kind of replacement for the feedback they might get from agents or publishers?

Good question. In theory, it shouldn't make much difference. The main function of a Lit Agency is to comment on your manuscript in terms of what works and what doesn't, and how the latter can be improved. Okay, yes, we all know about subjectivity; but on the whole, good technical writing can be recognised and encouraged. So, even if an author is going to self-publish, they should want to produce a book that's as well written as possible.

However . . .

It's debatable how many self-publishers are going to go the quality route. So you might argue that, given with self-publishing they don't have to, perhaps fewer are going to agencies than before. And even fewer if they aren't interested in some agencies' claims to find them an agent.

I haven't noticed much change on my side, but then most of my clients come word of mouth and/or I've worked with before. Also, I've never sold myself as a gateway to agents/publishers.

My gut feeling is that not enough self-publishers are paying to have their work edited at the moment. This, traditionally, is one of the main benefits of a publishing contract. But the success of books like 'Wool' by Hugh Howey may start to change that. He's clearly benefitted from making sure he put out a well-edited and well-crafted product.

I've just been working with an author who is resistant to changing his children's novel so that the main section of it has a plot. He's accepted that this will probably reduce his chances of a traditional deal so he plans to self-publish. Who knows? He may well find an audience who aren't too bothered about a missing plot. On the other hand, he may risk alienating readers.

It's debatable how many self-publishers are going to go the quality route. So you might argue that, given with self-publishing they don't have to, perhaps fewer are going to agencies than before. And even fewer if they aren't interested in some agencies' claims to find them an agent.

Yes - it would be very interesting to hear one of these agencies views on their own future.



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agencies'

It would be interesting to know about the different kinds and shapes of help they offer, if you see what I mean - especially, as Petal and others have said, with the way the whole industry is being reshaped by digital.

WWers are quite intelligent enough to read what's said in the light of who's saying it, and there seem to be a lot of different packages and formats; what's right for one writer at one stage might not be for another at another, and getting an idea of the range across several of these organisations would be useful information.

I know I've seen something recently on this subject, but it was very much from a US point of view.

I'd like to ask what their feedback is from agents who particpate in events like writers' conferences:

Do they feel it was worthwhile? What sort of percentage of submissions do they go on to request from the one-to-ones? Do they maybe feel under pressure, given that these are face-to-face meetings, to give the benefit of the doubt and ask for material that they might not have done if it had come through the usual slushpile route?