Not sure if this is the right place to put this but anywho...

I was thinking that maybe it'd be a good idea to put a more user friendly review system into place for when you read WW work. I'm going to be honest and say I can be quite lazy sometimes as I have read quite alot of work people have put on WW, but I don't always feel like writing about how good it is (or any other helpful comments) afterwards, but I would like to have been able to do something simple like give it a thumbs up, thumbs down or maybe a middle ground mark... and then if I felt 'up to it' I could always put some helpful comments.

I know this can't always be helpful to the writer, but I'm guessing alot of other people do the same thing, they read the story then move onto the next without putting any comments afterwards. It'd be nice to know how many people had actually read your work with a counter for example, and which of them liked or disliked it without the comments - if you see what I mean. Comments are superb to have but I know that alot of people read stories and don't put comments on it afterwards so it there was a chance to see if people that didn't leave a note liked it or not it'd be great.

There's nothing like a gentle stroke to the ego is there

Viky

I think comment is fundamental to WW - if we didn't have that then it would simply be a popularity poll.

To be honest I would rather someone not bother to make a comment on my work, for whatever reason, than give me a thumbs down or a thumbs up without any context.

I've been rubbish at reading and reviewing work recently, but when I do get my arse in gear, I think I owe it to the writer to give honest feedback, whether it runs to 20 words or 2,000.

We should try and push past ego stroking - people on here are dedicated and passionate with lots of different viewpoints, tastes and experiences, from professionals to complete amateurs like me. That is what makes the depth of comment so valuable and enlightening - even if you don't agree with what's been said.

Comments help people develop their writing through feedback and suggestion. A thumb and a counter wouldn't deliver that.

To be honest, if it's just a case of too much to read or too lazy to comment, I think you should just read one piece at a time and then comment before moving on to the next.

Again, I know I'm one to talk as I haven't read stuff for a while, but without this facility a big chunk of WW would have had its heart removed and its balls cut off.

So, now I'm going to read and comment.

Beadle

My problem for me with reading and commenting is that usually I need to leave some time between the two activities. I need time to absorb the impact what I've read has had on me and then try and translate that into some kind of useful comment. It's not always easy to get back afterwards.

Sometimes I really like what I've read with little or no reservations and that's easy, sometimes I don't like a piece at all and I generally say nothing (my mother's words haunt me: If you haven't got something nice to say, don't say anything at all) but most of the time I have mixed opinions about a piece and I try to separate the positive from the negative and give feedback on both.

I think that contributors can choose between 3 levels of criticism is a good idea but from my short time spent on this site, it looks as though everyone puts up "go on, I can take it" and I'm not convinced that it's always true.

Ashlinn

it looks as though everyone puts up "go on, I can take it" and I'm not convinced that it's always true.

You might be right, but I think you have to take what writers say in that box on face value.

I can see your dilemma about having time to reflect before commenting, but I think that means you're taking the job seriously, which is important.

However, I think you owe it to yourself to be honest about what you think and communicate that honesty, but try and be constructive at the same time.

That's why I don't thumbs up or thumbs down will work. Thumbs down will either be devestating or will be dismissed - thumbs up gives you a nice warm feeling, but you've still no idea what the reader liked about it or why.

Beadle

It would be nice to have something to make critiquing easier, I suppose. I also don't write comments if I can't think of anything nice to say, or if I don't have much time. I only comment if I've had time to print a piece off, read it carefully and put put biro markings all over it teacher-style! Anal, I know, but I don't feel I can do it thoroughly enough reading from screen and just putting 'I liked this' and not much else. That's why I don't comment loads compared to some people.

But I agree with Beadle, the thumbs up/down thing seems to simplistic and would leave people wondering.

Cath

I agree with Beadle as well; thumbs up - thumbs down seems to me a little like an Amazon review where someone gives one star and says This sucks" or five stars and says "this rocks".

I find it very difficult to translate my my thoughts/feelinsg into a good, balanced critical judgement, which is why I;ve commented far less than I have read. Sometimes I'd just like to say, hey, I really liked this, but without a detailed comment as to WHY I feel it's kind of inadequate, so i rather say nothing. Doesn't mean I didn't like it - just that I havent yet found the words, or found the time to find the words!

I guess an alternative would maybe to list different aspects that people could rate somehow, e.g. plot, characterisation, description, etc.?

Thumbs up and thumbs down is no help at all if you want to improve as a writer. Warm fuzzy thumbs-up feelings are not what WW's for, or shouldn't be, and a generalised thumbs down is just depressing and inhibiting. I'd rather have 20 words about one image that doesn't work. 200 words about an inconsisten character is wonderful. I can't remember who corrected some French I'd put in, but I was deeply grateful. If I want ego strokes I'll go and cuddle a dog.

I don't think a checklist would be terribly helpful - we think in terms of plot, language etc., but really they're all interwoven. You can't talk about voice without talking about character, for instance. And it's rather reductive, too: writing is not about trying to tick the right boxes, except in the minds of the most grimly industrial publishers. But it's certainly worth posting something along with the piece about what you would like readers to concentrate on, since we can't all write and essay every time - whether the voice is consistent, or the pace right, or whatever.

Mind you, there would be a place for the group as a whole to discuss a sort of loose mental checklist for what we should be looking for when we read - if only because it trains us in what we should be watching for as we write.

Emma

<Added>

I should add a disclaimer (as well as an apology for the typos). I didn't last long in the only group I've joined, and it was mainly because I didn't have time to do people's work justice, and felt guilty when they did justice to mine. I wonder if it's less of a problem with the poets, as their work comes in more bite-sized portions.

Hi Emma,

I agree with most of what you said. I was just playing with ways 'rating' work could be done, but yeah, any way is going to be simplistic and problematic. But if it encourages people to put some sort of comment when they wouldn't otherwise it might not completely be a bad thing.

I do like the idea of discussing aspects of work to comment on, though. It might help people think of things to say that they might not otherwise. Maybe there should be WW Guide to things people might want to comment on permanently on the site?

Cath

Cath, I think that's a great idea, with lots of provisos at every turn that it's only suggestions. 'Some things you might want to think about while reading someone else's poem/short story/chapter', as it were. Learning how to read is such a big part of learning how to write. And indirectly I think it might encourage people to comment more often if not always at greater length, because they'd be more aware of lots of issues as they read, and could just post the one or two that were most conspicuous when they'd finished. I used to feel that I ought to sit down and tease out everything I thought about a piece, with the result that most of the time, lacking the time to write that essay, I never commented at all!

Emma