I've been done like this before. I know Dee's been done ('gripe, gripe, gripe' forum) and I've had private WW mail from others who've been done. What am I talking about...? Free-loading trial members with a transparent agenda of self-promotion.

I shouldn't single people out, but take John Awu-Gima, no seriously take him! OK, old joke, but so's his. He puts out a plea for scripts. I WW mail him about mine on the 13th, a few days later John has top billing on the site 'Interview with John Awu-Gima'. Two weeks later I'm still waiting for even a courteous acknowledgement.

This leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. I joined WW fourteen months ago. I've paid £70, posted forty pieces and commented on over one hundred and thirty other pieces. This doesn't make me anything like as prolific as some, but I've contributed all the same. I've had value out of WW and I believe WW has had value out of me. Others though come and go in the blink of an eye.

I'll never post again as 'visible to all' and I'll never correspond with anyone not a full member.


<Added>

Oh dear! I gor poor old John's name wrong. John Giwa-Amu. Make sure you remember it, cos he's going places. Oh, hang on, he's already gone.

I believe trial members should not be able to open a forum. It is only ever about how they can 'gain'. They should also be blocked from WW mailing others. Make them stump up some cash first.

Shay, I sympathise. After that last problem I had, I made a decision not to comment on work by non-members. It’s not something I’m happy about, but there’s a limit to the number of times I can take being kicked in the guts by people who don’t even know me.

It makes me suspicious of their motives and their ethics and, for that reason, I’d really like the option to make my work visible to paid up members only.

Dee

Shay, in John's defence, I sent him some scripts and he replied very quickly and nicely - turning them down but offering advice at the same time. A friend of mine had the same reaction from him. I've sent scripts and short stories off in response to other ads on this and other sites and had no reply to the extent that I gave up (esp on the scripts).

Perhaps there are people who take advantage of the free month but we as members are under no obligation to 'talk' to them or read their work.

Elspeth

Hello,
I am a free member. I think I will join as I think this is a great forum. I live in the Scottish Highlands and am a crofter i.e I have no money, I would not of considered this unless I was given a free glimpse as i do not have the spare cash to join things that would not be appropriate to me, this seems very worth while and I will join as I live in an isolated place and It gets me in touch so please consider people in my situation. If i lived in a city I could join a writers group- up here there is only bloody sheep. Does this make sense?

Caroline

I have every sympathy, both with Shay's point about self-promotion and Dee's about being stung by part-members who seem to have mixed motives for being here, and is it my imagination, or is it happening more? I know I've been stung a few times myself and it's made me wary of interacting with anyone who hasn't signed up yet.

But take Caroline's point too, and if we exclude part-members they'll just go away, and weren't we (or lots of us, at least) part-members once? If we'd been excluded then, we most probably wouldn't be here now.

And Caroline, what you're saying makes perfect sense - writing is lonely, must be doubly lonely out in Wester Ross, and it's great to be able to interact with other writers in the way you can here. It's not that we want to discourage part-members, far from it, we've just go wary.

For myself, I've taken to checking out the profile of part-members first, and if they've commented on others' work I take that as a sign that they are bona fide, not just spoilers, and want to contribute as well as gain, so I'll go crit. It's not perfect, but it's the best I can think of for now.

Andrea

I hate ignoring new people, and it’s not in my nature to generalise like this, but I have no way to differentiate between who is genuine and who isn’t. I think we have plenty of members who don’t have these hang-ups… so I’ll rely on them to roll out the welcome mat until new members become fully paid up.

Dee

Fair enough, Dee, after That Incident it's no surprise you're not at the front of the queue with your red carpet ready

Take care
Andrea

I don't ignore trial members [though maybe after reading this thread I should] but if they post work of merit I urge them to join full-time and join a group, then leave them to it.
On this guy being interviewed: At least it seems he showed an interest. Member e.g. had feedback from him. That you did not is the unpleasantness of how the market works. MS or job application, if you send out 10 you NEVER get 10 replies. No feedback is a no from those who wouldn't know politeness if it bit them on the arse. They think it makes them appear busier than they really are.
Any professional interest in us is good. I'm currently have a mini moan elsewhere [Just out of interest...] about agents, publishers and editors visiting or being experts who don't ever seem to say to us contributing members: "Hey, like your work. Get in touch." If they never do, why are they here? Offering great tips from on high like "Get a Spellchecker." or "Put a drop of perfume on your MS."?

Don't let the unfairness of the business get you down.
WE are the talent.
An agent with clients is an empty bag of wind.
An editor without contributors has a roll of white paper.
A publisher without us talented has a print run of supermarket pamphlets.
WE are the talented. WE are their source of income.
One day, we'll turn this crazy business the right way round, and have THEM chasing US.
Paul

I have to echo Caroline's comments, but from a different perspective. While I can afford the subscription, one of the reasons I can is that I don't throw my money away. OK, WW always looked like a good bet but if a free trial is offered you'd be a fool not to take it.

I'd hate to see the free membership taken away - it's a recipe for losing valuable new members. Those who are not full members are clearly shown by their icon and I do think it's beholden upon contributors to consider the amount of time and effort they expend in their direction. It's tricky, of course, someone who is uncertain about joining may be swayed either way by the comments and help received.

I agree with Shay that 'free-loaders' are a pain but I can't realistically see an alternative if we want to capture the worthwhile ones.

J

I don’t think anyone is suggesting we drop the free trial option. But I do think we, as paying members, should have the options of more protection from people who chose to abuse it.

I’ve been actively encouraging and welcoming new members for eighteen months now, and it grieves me to be put in the situation where I don’t feel comfortable with that anymore, but I don’t participate in this site to be abused by strangers.

I’m not a member of any other online site so I have nothing to compare. However, my partner is involved with several sites and, from what he says, I get the impression that WW is very special in that we have a high level of respect for each other. I would hate to see that diminished in any way.

We are all individuals. We all react in different ways. Personally I would like to see more filtering systems on WW. I’d like to have the option to prevent free-trial members from seeing my work. (I have hidden what I think are some of my best short stories because I don’t have this filter)

Also, I’d like a forum option that’s available to paid-up members only. I’m sure the vast majority of members would waive this option – as I would have myself until recently – so there would be plenty for non-members to see, but also there would be that tantalising hint of more if they paid up.

Dee

Dee, while the trial member thing doesn't bother me, I agree a full-member forum would be a good thing. Jai has mentioned this before. There are some things - about writing - that I would like to discuss without it being visible to all and sundry (e.g. a critique I received today). This doesn't mean it would be a spleen-venting place, i see it more as a real lounge, where we can relax and 'talk' openly, without fear of repercussions or flame wars.

Elspeth

Absolutely, Elspeth. That is exactly what I was thinking about.

I'll contact DB and ask him to have a look at this thread.

Dee

Hate to do a "me too" post, but I agree with Dee and Elspeth on this one, for forums and uploaded work there should be full member option.

Peace.

Maybe my perspective would be of some help as I only joined recently.
I almost certanly would not have joined if not for the free trial. I think it is important to respond to free trial members because it is the quality of the comments I received on my work, particularly from Richard and Silverelli, that I decided to join. I think I joined after less than a week as a free trial member.
I find the site really good and helpful.
I do think the site should have a warning though, just like you find on a pack of cigarettes as it is highly addictive.

Brian