I'm just thinking, is there not a better way to 'introduce your work' than the current system of making an announcement in the forum of that name?

I found it a bit embarrassing having to post a request for comments and a link to my first uploaded piece, do I have to do this every time I upload something new?! It feels rather too much like blowing your own trumpet, when you're just trying to find out if others like your trumpet or whether it needs a few dents bashing out or even remodelling into a saxophone.

Wouldn't it be better to have a 'New Writing' section which is automatically populated with new writing from across all groups and the archive, as soon as it is uploaded? That way, the work is presented for inspection without the author having to specifically ask for people to read and comment. The reason for uploading is to get critiqued, why make people specifically ask?

I blushed as I asked for further crits in the Private Members Forum, a blush that deepened as the request was completely ignored! Do some PMs just not crit or upload their own work, as it seems, or did I break some kind of site protocol? I had, admittedly, already had some good comments, but felt the need for something . . . else. I'm sure many PMs are very busy, but surely critiquing is key to how a site like this works?

Anyway, I believe a highly visible 'New Writing' section would help matters enormously, taking the awkwardness out of introducing new work for the authors and, hopefully, encouraging more people to offer their critique.

Thanks for listening!

Jan

It is always worth suggesting things to Admin., although getting crits is a perenial problem, and most, if not all, will come from members in the Group where you've uploaded your work, which is why it's important to join one of the more active ones.

There is the Archive (top left) - http://www.writewords.org.uk/archive/ - which lists all newly uploaded work - so long as it's not set to be viewable to Group members only or the member only.

The best way, though, is to post a note on the Topic section of the Group where you've uploaded the work, saying you've uploaded new work and are looking for comments, since most feedback is going to come from members in that Group.

The site works best with reciprocal critting, and members tend to stay within their comfort zones which is why there isn't much cross-critting between Groups.


- NaomiM

I posted my idea here because that is, in effect, contacting Admin, as far as I can tell. And this way others get to express their opinions, too.

You haven't addressed my view that it is embarrassing having to ASK to be critted, especially when your request is ignored. At least, if your work was automatically uploaded to a 'new writing' section, going without comments (which I did not, but it does happen) would be taken less personally and perhaps more members would remain active.

Of the five people who commented on my piece, three were members of the Short Story Group (inc. the Group Host), two were not. I did start a 'new topic' in the Short Story Group to say I'd uploaded work and although 14 people have looked at that, only three of them critted, as I've said. None of the groups seem terribly active, and the SSG isn't exactly vibrant which is disappointing as I had to pitch to get into it. One can only sensibly join the group that is appropriate to what you're writing, active or not. So it seems sensible to have a central 'New Writing' section for all writing to appear in (with restrictions in place as the author requires, of course) so that people at least have a chance of being seen and receiving useful criticism.

I know about the Archive, but the name doesn't exactly say 'new writing' and new work is buried in it to be seen only by those willing to do the necessary excavation. The 'Random Read' is more visible, and that has work on it from donkey's years ago by people who don't seem to be active members anymore. This strikes me as not only unfair but ridiculous. New work should be the lifeblood of the site, not secreted away; new work is what we're all striving to produce and should be prominently displayed when it's ready to be read.

It is a shame that some people aren't more willing to crit outside their group - or at all. It seems to be that, with many of the groups dying on their feet, division of the site into groups is killing its vibrancy.

Jan

Hi Jan,

embarrassing having to ASK to be critted

Absolutely, yes, but I think Naomi has sort of answered in practical terms.

The reciprocal critting within groups works well to ensure you don't have to. As Naomi says, they all differ in flavour of the crits you get, from my own experience:

- Flash Fiction or Flash Fiction 2 are fun places to hang out and you get a lot of people reading your work, but the feedback tends to be a little lighter as there is simply too much to read...
- Commercial Short Story has a lot of camaraderie mixed in with some fairly focussed feedback from the point of view of making a sale to womags
- Intensive Critique has more detailed focus on each piece and I try to manage it to get at least three opinions on each piece... implying that each person who uploads also crits another three pieces
- Sitcom and Radio both focus on scripts and tend to allow _really_ long pieces as the gist tends to be to take an episode in its entirety

Once you are an active participant in a group, there is no need to ask - people will want to keep critting your work because they will also want you to crit theirs!

It's enlightened self-interest working at its best and, seeing as there is no cost barring a click on a link or two, it is probably easiest for you to just search across the groups until you find one that suits.

Best of luck, I feel your pain - hence the reason for joining WW and also for trying to keep IC active - finding good feedback is a never ending and often irritating task. But good feedback is invaluable.

Cheers,
G

It seems to be that, with many of the groups dying on their feet, division of the site into groups is killing its vibrancy.

I'm not sure I agree with that exactly, though I agree with something along those lines and have, in the past, campaigned for fewer, bigger groups to overcome the worst excesses of Internet lulls.

The trouble is, the Internet remains a big and uncharted territory. It is too big to ensure that the reciprocal critting needed to ensure vibrancy (nobody likes giving all the time without receiving at all) and the groups act as a half-way house to give people a better than average chance of getting something back for what they put in.

It is also true that some (a lot) of the groups have suffered a bit of a lull lately, especially with Nanowrimo, but as it is so easy to move between groups, voting with your feet remains the best way to stimulate the groups that are working.

G

And finally...

I believe a highly visible 'New Writing' section would help matters enormously

I think I may have looked for something similar in the past, and remember asking for the "Uncommented work" link to actively seek out work that had been overlooked.

The trouble is, I like to give deep crits on the understanding that my opinion may be flawed and that those receiving it are big enough and tough enough to either ignore or let me know about anything I say that is daft. But, if you are commenting on a piece of work from a writer you don't know, it is difficult to know either what they are looking for or what they will accept.

I know for a fact that I have got it wrong on occasion and given crits that were taken very, very differently to the way they were intended. As such, I tend not to comment on work outside IC too much or on writers who don't know me as it feels so awful when you get it wrong. So, although I like the idea of highlighting work that is looking for crits, there is a bigger risk for the critter as well as the crittee when it is outside of a group.

G

ps:

as I had to pitch to get into it.

Um. Actually...
This might be one for David Admin to look at. The pitch email is, I think, a hangover from when groups were run very differently - as group host of IC, I've never seen one despite having had ten or fifteen new members...
I think, probably, that form could or should be retired...

Hi Gaius

Yes, perhaps a few, larger groups is the answer, the site certainly seems very sub-divided at the moment.

I do think a 'new writing' section would be beneficial. I take your point about how crits can be misunderstood but if they ask for 'go on, I can take it' that is an invitation for the type of intensive crit you give, surely?

Dunno, too tired to think about it anymore tonight!

Jan

I do think a 'new writing' section would be beneficial

I think you are talking about two, very different, requirements for a writing site.

Getting crits is, IMHO, about work that the writer knows is not perfect but that they cannot see how to move forward without another set of eyes. Therefore, I almost invariably restrict visibility to my group so as not to have the world and his wife subjected to inadequate drivel.

By contrast, there should also be a feature to show off good or thought-provoking work as a demonstration and celebration of vibrant new ideas.

I think the widely publicised "New Writing" concept is better suited to the latter than the former. It works in tandem with the successes feature and writer's profile to allow writer's to "big-up themselves" or "big themselves up" (ah, neologisms...).

G

I've only been 'back' a couple of weeks. The first time I joined, I didn't upload work - but since rejoining I have. I've found the critiquing immensely helpful.

Gauis' Intensive Critique group is great - and Gauis is an honest critiquer (but his feedback is useful). Other groups are quieter, although Women's Fiction has just woken up.

I do think separate groups are needed, as I write Women's Fiction-type stuff (or, at least, I try to). I have difficulty critiquing poetry, flash fiction, etc - although I do try. I certainly like the fact that I can choose a group - or two- suited to my needs.

As Gaius said, NaNo is on at the moment and loads of people are trying to write 50,000 words in November, so it's a bit quiet online. I've been told this by another member too, as they are experiencing quiet times on this site.

Join another more active group, suited to your needs. I saw that you critiqued AnneC's Telemachus (I hope that's the correct spelling) and her piece is in Intensive Critique.

Best wishes

Sharley



<Added>

I should have said (AND his feedback is useful).

Sorry Gaius $)

<Added>

Oops, I went a bit wrong there



I need L plates for the smileys!

You haven't addressed my view that it is embarrassing having to ASK to be critted

Sorry, should have said, yes absolutely agree with you. No idea what to do about it to improve the situation. Members have made various suggestions over the years, but at the end of the day it boils down to how active the Group is, and how comfortable members feel within that group, which feeds through into reciprocal critting. If you feel the group is not active enough then feel free to move around the groups, propose your own group, gee up interest withing the group you're currently in...etc.

- NaomiM

<Added>

Just to echo what Gaius has said, that things are quiet at the mo while members are busy with Nano. It also tends to go quiet over the weekends and school holidays.

I'm new to full membership, perhaps I don't properly understand how the site works yet and should accept things the way they are as everyone else seems happy. No doubt things will become clearer over time. Will pipe down!

Jan

should accept things the way they are

Was it GBShaw who opined that progress was dependent on the unreasonable man?

Seriously, I think everyone knows where you're coming from, and many of us have started a similar thread before now! All ideas welcome, I remain convinced that the search for good crit is, almost by definition, a poor compromise...

<Added>

I should have said (AND his feedback is useful).

I was quite taken by the nuance in "but".

I should have said (AND his feedback is useful

I was quite taken by the nuance in "but".

Hilarious, you two!

Yes, NaNo could well have something to do with it.

Jan, I think the best way to get your work critted is to join a group which seems vaguely suitable and which is reasonably active, then crit some other people's work. Chances are at least some of them will return the favour. I think most of us feel that if someone crits us we should crit them back.

Maybe you've tried that already??

Deb

<Added>

I mean, obviously, upload work into the group, then crit other people's, and see what you get 'back'.