YES!

That's exactly what I was thinking about when I suggested it!

Dee
x

Woah woah woah, why are we not using Derek's original Flasher cover art. Are you kidding me? That would help sell the collection like hot cakes. If we use the traffic lights photo as the cover we will put the reader to sleep before they even open the book: it's dull and predictable.

Please please please stick to the original artwork plan.

Title: An Introduction to Flashing

Picture: One innocent looking person in a mac sitting at a desk in a classroom, looking up at camera....

Our names on the blackboard....

Sorry Adam, the flasher 'Norman', is no more. But I suspect he may reappear somewhere soon...he's alive!...

Dee/ Sam, I like the idea of a road at night, but to be honest I don't think that picture has much atmosphere or impact.

Have you ever been on the M62 between Leeds and Oldham on a rainy winter night? It looks like the rollercoaster to hell...That's what I thought you meant. Glaring lights, trails, reflections in the road, winding away into the distance.

Still like the road idea...but just not that one. Only my opinion.

Derek.


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Up near the Saddleworth junction :).

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http://www.hebdenbridge.co.uk/hollings/images/road.jpg this is the area...not a great photo though.

I think we perhaps need to take a step back. There's 14 of us and we are getting preoccupied with the cover. I'm not saying it isn't important, but are we all happy with the standard of our nominated pieces? Are there any still need editing, polishing, etc?

The problem with a large collaboration like this is everyone (quite rightly as we're all putting up the same money) wants to impose their own ideas and opinions. I believe that we should have a three person panel to take care of the front and back cover and outside copy. They can also arrange the foreword from a 'literary' name. The rest of us get behind them 100% and back them whatever decisions they make. It's a big responsibility...any volunteers?

Shay

Just wanted to say I like Derek's Saddleworth photo.

I'd like to volunteer but I really can't take on anything more this side of Christmas. Do we have a celeb lined up to do the foreword?

Dee
x

Nothing concrete, Dee. Sion has a couple of contacts and Jenny Eclair is a friend of a friend, isn't she?

Thanks for volunteering. I would also volunteer, but if people think I have too much control / influence I will gladly leave this bit to others.

Incidentally, I have been mailed by David Bruce, who has said he is fully behind us and thinks it is a very exciting venture. However, he regrets that no financial assistance can be offered. David, though, has kindly offered to promote the book and publish an interview.

I keep thinking about the press coverage Friends Reunited has received and also the WI Calendar Girls which became a movie! If 4 or 5 of the contributors (plus Dee's cat) were on the cover it could help the promotion of the book through the media. It is quite a story in itself when you think about it.

Shay

Hi Shay/ everyone,

I just wanted to chip in two things.

Firstly - I agree about the cover taking over...I need to go back and double check my stuff.

And Dee, I doubt you need any 'help' from me, but if there's anything more you want me to read...just say. I'll contact Ben too...

Secondly - While I think a panel would work to some extent, someone's gonna end up unhappy unless we all make the decisions… at least to a point (e.g. we all decide that a motorway picture is either great or at least acceptable)...then a small panel could tie up the details...choose a particular photo etc.

I mean if we'd had a panel already, and it was for example, Shay, Adam, and myself...we'd probably have a Flasher on the cover by now ... possibly a flasher with an added shit fetish... and obviously the panel wouldn't be acting for the group as a whole, in that case.
An extreme example...but you see what I mean...In my opinion, anyone who's interested in the cover will have to have their say. Fair's fair.

Here's an idea. How about we invite all contributors to an online meeting... at a set time, on the forum (one evening this week?). With the aim of hammering out the cover issue...and making a final decision. Just an idea...but I think the reason this is dragging on is because we all chip in at different times.

Derek.

I think a panel would be okay as long as they had different tendencies - someone who was for the flasher idea, someone going more for the moving traffic, the lightning, etc. (I think it would be very hard to get everyone together at one time.)

Ani

I agree that needs to be decided soon. It's beginning to feel like something that we must get round before we can move on. I'm not sure about an online meeting. It would be a good idea if we could find a time when nearly everyone is available, but this might take almost as long to organise.

Could we set some deadlines for proposed cover, and then the final decision? Perhaps, just for example, we could say that all proposed covers should be put on the table by Friday. Each contributor may put forward one (or two?) proposed covers, if they wanted to. Then over the weekend we could have one vote each. The winner would be the picture with the most votes. In the case of a tie perhaps Shay could decide?

I think the problem is that we are never going to find a cover that everyone likes. So this is just an idea of how we might get round this trick-some problem. However, we would all have to agree to the outcome, even if the winner was not a picture we liked. What say you?

This could end up a competition between two or three sides. I'm not sure...if we'd have said two weeks ago that we would definitely be going for the flasher that would have been it. However, one member (quite rightly) spoke out against it and gave justifiable reasons...then the floodgates opened.

Sometimes tough decisions have to be made and this is one of them. We could have a cross-section panel as Ani has suggested, but loudest voice will win. We could out-source to an advertising co, but that will cost us more money. Whatever happens now with the cover is never going to be universally popular...there's 14 voices! I think there needs to be a bit of trust and faith that whoever decides on the cover has the projects best interests in mind (not heart, because we've got to act with our heads). It may not be the one you want, but it would be the one that the panel or whoever believe will have the biggest marketing impact, relevance and 'jump off the shelf', attention-grabbing quality.

Are we in it for vanity publishing or to try to maximise the opportunity in terms of sales and bringing ourselves to the attention of publishers?

Which option, so far, has the greatest potential to do that?

Shay

Shay, in my experience ideas don't really count for much in art. People need to see it. This makes more of a problem, because if, for example, we go for a photo, we'd need to actually either take or source that photo...if it's a painted design we'd have to get it painted.

I can help with some designs, but I'm not a traditional artist, or a photographer...

If we go with PABD, I think we'd get a cover design for a few quid extra...but I doubt it would be exactly what we all wanted. I might be wrong but I suspect that even with a bespoke design from them, there would be little room for asking for changes etc.

So far we only have two ideas that have recieved positive feedback - "Lightning" and "Motorway". As Sam suggested, lets go out and find stuff...or come up with new ideas so we can hunt for other images.

I will search photographers sites for pictures. Or if there's a photographer amongst us?...stick your hand up for doin a motorway piccy...

Derek.

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We're gonna have to pay for a photo though. But shall we see what the cost is?

Here's an example of a photographer selling lightning shots.

http://www.weatherstock.com/lightningcat3.html

Coming to this conversation late, cause you guys are six hours ahead of me.

I agree with Shay and Derek on much of what they said. I am thinking completely in terms of marketability and I sent and email to El yesterday explaining my frustration about the path that this project was starting to lead. I'm in it to SELL, not share with family and friends. I agree we need to do what is best for the potential of getting NOTICED!

I'm open to drop the Flasher idea for the cover, but I'm not to keen on the motorway idea-it's just not FLASHY enough. Sorry.

I also think we need to give great thought about the lineup of the way our Flashes are presented(not just select randomly)-maybe we've talked about this and I've missed it.

An online forum meeting is a great idea, but, remember, our time zone differences, if we schedule this.

As far as the 3 person panel idea. I'm game. I think I would be a good representative for the target audience of Ages 12-35. I'm right on the cusp of Generation X and Generation Y. I would like to think I connect with these two Generations.

Adam,

I agree with you that we want to make this as marketable as possible, but that is precisely why I think we'll have a problem with the picture of the flasher. Why alienate half the market before they've had a chance to look at the book?

And I think a lightning cover can be very catchy.

Ani