Dee

I think your comments about 'Experts ' are very valid it does seem that some are more active than others and that whilst one accepts that their time is limited, perhaps it would be more appropriate if they shared their comments around on an equal basis.Accepting of course that each has their own specialty

Equally though I think the site has grown beyond all expectations and that which seemed like a viable option at the start is now not practical

The Site Experts are overrated. Except for you, Jubbly.

Can't agree, there Silver. I think the Experts are superb, on the poetry side of things, anyway...
x
tc
BTW, how's the new leaf?

And I think the site experts are superb on the short story side of things. Certainly not everyone here is disaffected.

Ani

The new leaf is going good.
I just enrolled in a Novel Workshop here in Bethesda, MD. I went to my first class on Wednesday. The teacher is Leslie Pietryk, you can find her on Amazon, she has a couple published novels and her sales rank is like 80,000th(Is that good?)
Anyway, There are 7 other women in the class and one boy fresh out of high school. The class on Wednesday dealt with Character development. We all did a writing exercise and had to read aloud our characters.
When it got time for me to share and I read my answers to the exercise, I think I freaked all the women out and caught them way off guard. If you've read any of my uploaded work, you will know what I'm talking about.

The people in the group are kinda strange(they probably say the same about me), but the teacher is extremely cool(we got into a little debate about the need for a character to have to want something or desire something in order to capture the reader's interest)-I'm learning a lot from her.


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btw, tiny, you haven't uploaded your profile on myspace.com yet. What is wrong with you? Hurry, go to it, now.

No, Silverelli, I can’t agree with you - so no change there I don’t think the experts are over-rated at all.

Ani and tc, yes of course you think they’re superb because they frequently comment on your work. I think they’re great too… but they do appear to be selective about who’s work they comment on.

Maybe they don’t have the time and have decided to restrict their reading to just a few members, but it leaves some of us feeling a little out in the cold.

Ole, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Equally though I think the site has grown beyond all expectations and that which seemed like a viable option at the start is now not practical

I wonder what, if anything, can be done about it?

Dee.

Dee,
I try and back you up, fueling your hostility towards the lack of action the Site Experts are dishing out, and you come back and kick me in the balls by disagreeing with me. Typical Dee.

Let's face it, if the site experts are so busy that they can't read everyone's work on here, they won't be reading your novel once it is published anyway, we will(the average reader). Focus on pleasing us and not what the Site Experts think.

Dee,
I agree that to feel passed over by the Experts is discouraging and frustrating. I guess I'd always assumed your work is so polished and confident that you must get your fair share of Experts, and I find it strange if you, and others like you, don't...
Do we know exactly how the Experts work though? I recently had a comment from Taupe, one of the less 'visible' poetry Experts, who said my poem was one of his 'allocation', so perhaps they don't just comment as and when they like...? I think if work is allocated to them it obviously could be done in a fairer way? Perhaps Anna could enlighten us?

And anyone doubting the amount of thought Experts bring to their role should read the extensive and considered comments given by one of them on my latest piece 'Feeling in Colour'. To get feedback like that is invaluable...but, yes, I do sincerely wish it were available to all..

x
tc

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Adam, your class sounds like a great mix! I'm sure you'll introduce a little fire into the debate! Some differing outlooks and perspectives can only be good for your work - and theirs too...
I think all you've got to try and remember is to feel about for the limit, the line, and then don't step over it. Teeter on the brink, by all means - a challenging, creative place to be! If you can get that balance, I think it will work in your favour
And whassis about a profile? dunno owt about it, will look into it...
x
tc

I think Silverelli has a point regarding the site experts. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during his writing class.

Peter

Helen's right. You get sent notification of uploads on site, you will have indicated at the beginning how many pieces you can read a week, and there's a way of changing that number if you want to.
In my case I just read the shorts, although once or twice I did read big chunks of a novel. So I don't, initially, decide what I'm going to read. Having read what's emailed to me, if I've got time I go to Short Story 1, Fiction 1 and the horror site and see what's there. If I've got more time, I do more. If someone emails me and asks me to read a piece, I always do.

I don't crit poetry because I don't have enough knowledge about it to feel confident to do it. Poetry is an awesome and truly hard discipline to me. I leave it to the poets who know what they're talking about.
Becca.

When I first joined WW, the idea of having a site expert comment on my work was a big draw. I was disappointed not to get more of it (although I have to say both Nell & Becca have commented on a piece of mine in the last few days - for which, thanks). But to be honest, once I'd been established here, it ceased to matter - I think their contribution is useful because when they do comment they are often very detailed, but I don't actually value their critique more than anyone else's. While as writers they've obviously reached a high standard, when they're critiquing they're only readers like the rest of us.

I think what can be a problem is when they're Group Hosts but too busy to be very active within that group; I remember belonging to a group where that was the case, and the group seemed to have no focus, no motivation. I wonder if that's why some groups aren't very active (I haven't time to go check, so no one shoot me if that's not the case)? For which reason, I love Elspeth's suggestion in her opening post that there could be "lesser experts", people who make a regular contribution (there are names that leap out as littering the site, in a nice way, with comments). Perhaps it would be an idea to have a Group Host who isn't a site expert and, where possible, a site expert as a "consultant" too? It would then be the regular-contributor Group Host's responsibility to critique all work appearing in the group, while the site expert bobs in when they can.

In Flash Fiction (of which I happen to be Group Host, which proves you don't need to be a site expert), we don't have a site expert, but that's not stopped it being a very active group. Sadly I can't take credit for that - there are some very enthusiastic and talented members in it; but in flagging groups, it might help to have a new Group Host who can kickstart things and keep the ball rolling, making sure that every posting gets at least one critique. Incidentally, I think one thing that keeps the group active is that we have a weekly challenge, which writers outside the group also participate in.

One problem in all groups I think is that there are members who join but then don't contribute - we've had a number of people who have enquired about joining, but haven't been able to, because of the places occupied by languishers.

Anyway, that's my penn'orth.

Take care
Andrea



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& perhaps there should be an understanding that group membership does involve a responsibility to critique the work within that group? (Okay, I know it would be difficult to monitor - you can't eject someone who hasn't critiqued, but the understanding might help ....) I've noticed a spate of people saying they're disappointed that they've had no or few comments on their work, and I'm sure we'd all agree it's hard not to think that's because your piece must be crap - perhaps a renewed understanding that group membership does carry that responsibility would help deal with that problem? I know it's hard when we read a piece that isn't to our taste to find anything to say, but surely in every piece there's some good that could be highlighted along with a gentle but honest pointer to what didn't appeal? At least with a regular-contributor Group Host, each piece (so long as the poster had joined a group)would get at least one critique.

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Me again! I've just been reading a fascinating thread on Poetry about critique that relates a bit to what I was saying. So I'm going to copy the above and start a new thread with it