Hi all,

I am missing the submissions from Mika (I think she may have left anyway), Nell (she may have retired into Fiction Group 2, or stopped submitting), 3dbluesky (who stopped his tale in midstream, about a month ago), and many other excellent writers.

I think the security move that lets people exclude some members of WW from reading their stories, for copyright purposes, has cut me out, and this is annoying.

It would be a privilege to join more groups, but many are full, and I have a thing about exclusive attitudes anyway. I don't like the idea of joining a group that says, 'You can come in, but no-one else can.'

I also get the impression that the group system was intended to mirror the physical arrangements of a writers' group in a local hall, so this exclusivity is inherent in the concept of WW.

Is it a case of 'Go away, we are not interested in your comments, so we won't let you read this story"?

As a positive suggestion, can we make the points system more meaningful, by saying all those over 2,000 points have carte blanche, and can see, and comment on, all stories and poems?

Very annoyed, JohnK.

Yes, John, I can see your frustration. What are the purpose of these points, except to show how addicted we are to this site!

Elspeth

Hello John K,
I am not a member of any Group. I have my reasons, one of which is this question of exclusion. Some while ago I removed most of my stories but left one to signify that I was still alive.

However I would like to be able to have access to everybody's writing. Even if one is a member of a Group, one is still excluded from other Groups, if the writer limits access to his or her writing... I think that's how it works.

I tend to look at work from our newest members and there are some members whose submissions I would not miss - these are a 'must' with me. I do not comment much unless I feel that this would be
helpful or encouraging.

As regards the 2000 points providing a season ticket, I think this would create another 'Group' within WW. At the same time it seems to me that so many points are earned through written grunts, noises and useless banter from the Forum sites.

Len

I'm with Elspeth in regards to these points - I don't quite see the point of them. On the site they are described as not having any monetary value but simply a symbol of 'status and respect' - hmmm...I don't know about anyone else - but to earn genuine status and respect doesn't come so easily and particularly not by having a load of meaningless numbers by your username.

I would rather have them do away with these numbers and have relevant things like a counter to see how many people have read an uploaded piece of work.

John - I haven't been following Andrew's novel - but I don't think he's been uploading new chapters. I may be wrong. But yes it is annoying when can't comment on work that you've read because it's restricted to a group, but personally, I figure that if the author has made the conscious choice to limit it only to group comments then I just move on and comment on other work that's available to all. In the end, it's their choice and may be some would argue...their loss...?

Nahed

John, I haven't retired into Fiction 11, I've just been a little less active lately with real life demanding more of my time. I've recently selected 'Write Words Members Only' for all my work after having a funny moment on Google when loads of things I'd sent out came up for all the world to see, but you ought to be able to see them, something is wrong if you can't.

I've also been slightly frustrated by reading a piece of work only to find it's for group members only to comment upon.

The groups themselves seem to go through phases of activity and hibernation. I look upon them as being collections of members with an obligation to comment on each other's work, but it doesn't seem to work like that as people tend to disappear for long periods, leaving a few to try to keep the group working. The monthly review and expulsion of inactive members doesn't seem to be acted upon, so they can easily stagnate.

Re. the points system, the idea is good in theory; it should encourage members to comment, although it does a have a flaw inasmuch as if one just wanted to amass a huge number of points it would be easy just to say 'I liked it' after every piece of work.

The huge influx of new members lately has made it difficult to keep up with new work posted, and one simply cannot read everything - that in itself is almost a reason for encouraging compatible writers to join together in groups. Just my thoughts - I'm not sure what the answer is - but as WW continues to grow solutions may have to be found.

Nell.

<Added>

John, if you look at the thread The Icera Stone the latest posts discuss whether Andrew should upload the last chapters, and I think you may get some idea of what's going on.

<Added>

Re. Mika, I was in touch with her some time ago, but she seems to have allowed her membership to lapse, as she's not in the list of members. If that happens I suppose one disappears from WW as if one has never existed.

<Added>

Ah, I've just been to my mail box and from it accessed Mikas's profile. Currently she has no work uploaded. Can I still WW mail her I wonder?

<Added>

I should have checked before posting - the groups seem to have had a spring clean - there's now lots of space in them for new additions.

Thanks to Nell, Nahed, Len and Elspeth -

I accept all the points you have made.
Thanks very much for your help in making up my mind about this.

Regards, John Kellett.

John, may I ask what you've decided?

Hi Nell -

I've decided to withsraw my stuff too, and to resign from the two groups I had joined.

Thanks for all your help,

John Kellett.

<Added>

Whoops - I have withdrawn my stuff - I may withsraw it later, if I find out what that word means.

never really saw the point in the points but perhaps they made The Brucemeister feel good so thought it impolotic to make any comment

I agree though there is now so much stuff posted you cant keep up so I post when it is appropriate having read what I can.

I think a topic hit counter would work better with authors hits not counting on their own work.

It would at least give a guide to how many peopel read soemthing and don't comment

David, I think the points are to encourage comments and activity on the site, they also have the advantage of enabling one to see if someone takes feedback without giving any at all - I don't just mean to the members who commented on their work, but in general. I wouldn't be in favour of making it compulsory to comment - everyone's situation is different and some have more time than others - but maybe encouragement of some sort is necessary.

John, can't you get into 'group members only' by going into someone's profile?

I made a very early comment myself about the points system. I felt it should reflect how supportive someone was, in other words how much time they spent criting work rather than anything else like uploading their own work. Maybe now this could be the way? We could all abandon our 'points' and start again.
Becca.

Well Becca, there's no shortage of work or comments on WW these days - I'm happy to go along with anything David decides.

Hi Becca -

No that doesn't work.

Group Work (visible to group members only)

means just that. I tried it with bluesky3d work, and it really is not visible, except within his group.

Hello JohnK,
I used to read most things and their associated comments but for the last few weeks with so many new members and so many comments, I have ended up reading nothing at all. I'll try and work out a way to involve myself again.

I much appreciate your comments over the months, on the uploads of the Icera Stone.

With reagard to access to work in groups, I agree that is frustrating. What to do about it, escapes me, at present. For like-minded people to form their own crit groups may be one answer, but there's a danger this may make the group and comments too inbred. If you let me know what work of mine you would like to read, I'll make it available to you, one way or another.

Best regards

Andrew )

I can understand the logic of the group system for ensuring that work is grouped.

I am not sure I understand why we need to restrict, as a general rule, comment to within group memebers only.

I agree with and I do restrict viewing of my work to write words members only.

If the default option on uploading new work was write words members only then that may be an acceptable option.

just a thought or two

david