This may have been raised before but I am currently listening to R4 and there appears to be a campaign lead by the supermarkets and Borders to scrap the RRP on books. Having listened to the spokesman form ASDA hwose case is that having two prices ona book may be confusing for customers is weak to say the least.

But he was quite open about selling books at about 50% of the RRP.

Seems to me the only people who are going to suffer are the authors, independant book shops and ultimately the public because authors will I guess stop writing.

Small term gain with long term shortsigtedness ( is that a word well it is now) by the supermarkets and large booksellers.

I would welcome some views form the experts

I am not expert, but here is my tuppence worth anyway.

Will it make a difference?

Books are one of the very few products (are there any others?) that have an RRP printed on it. When the net book agreement was scrapped the supermarkets cut the prices anyway. They can, effectively, set their own prices now. I can't see them cutting it further - or are they planning to?

Maybe I am missing some major issue, but the collapse of the net book agreement was the issue that could have caused the above. It hasn't as yet. I can't see writers ever stopping writing because it won't pay as well. People write because they want to, money is secondary. I would hazard a guess at books being written purely for financial gain are probably those that aren't really worth reading.

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Also - lower prices may mean more books sold - which can't be a bad thing.

I did start a thread on this issue last week which you can find in the archives if you're curious, asit drew some interesting comments. It's an issue that is all over the place at the moment, with various arguments coming from all sides.

Amazon aren't happy because without the RRP they claim customers won't have a reference as to the value of discounts, or competitors prices.

The issue with authors is that royalties are calculated as a percentage of the RRP. Without the RRP a new system would come into place which many feel would leave the author worse off.

And some people feel that 'middle-range' authors - successful but a long way from riches and the vast majority - would be the worst hit.

So who knows what will happen. I'm all in favour of affordable books, but not if it's at the cost of an author's living.

And as a personal bugbear, I hate this division of writing for a living and writing for 'soul'. Some people (and, in my opinion, the best authors)write for both. Plenty of authors do indeed write for financial gain, and plenty of them are poor writers - but many of them happen to be good writers. Whatever your personal reasons for writing, (and I know that not everyone wants to be published), publishing is a business and a book is a product to be sold. And I don't think that's a derogatory statement, but then that's just me.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

Katie

Katie

thank you for that I suspect even the most commercially successful writers don't earn very much per hour if you include the research and hours spent formulating a plot etc, anything which reduces that rate has to be detremental to the profession.

I hadn't though about the Amazon / BOL connection but certainly seems to me that it could siganl the end of the independant book shop.

Katie

thank you for that I suspect even the most commercially successful writers don't earn very much per hour if you include the research and hours spent formulating a plot etc, anything which reduces that rate has to be detremental to the profession.

I hadn't though about the Amazon / BOL connection but certainly seems to me that it could siganl the end of the independant book shop.

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another bizarre double posting

Hey, if we think we don't want this to happen - scrapping the RRP - how can we organise ourselves against it? Writers of the World, Unite! (I mean it! I'd like to think that I have a future vested interest!)

(Ani)

ani
writing or petitioning your MP or the minister responsible used to work but now the government don't seem to take any notice of the people look at the GM food decision last week.

Persuading people not to buy books from Asda Tesco and Borders but to use independants would have an effect if you could ensure it was 100% effective, but in reality if people want a book and have the choice of paying 100% or 50% of the RRp which will they choose ?

so great idea but to repeat your question how do we do something that works and yes I agree we all have a vested interest

take care

david

Daisy

yes you may sell more books but if the profit margin is cut, by let us say 50% then you need to sell twice as many books to make the same profit, but in reality the costs are higher as you need to print and distribute twice as many books so the profit per book is probably cut by a bigger margin say 60% not 50% at which point a publisher may decide not to take a risk on an author at all as he/she needs to shift too much paper to make a meagre profit on an unknown.

The argument them may be for all butthe tried and trusted authors book to be POD with specialist book shops/ independants having a readers copy for perusal in the shops and people buying to order. I suspect we would then not see the exceptional sales of the past but perhaps everybody would get a sensible profit per copy and teh supermarkets would not want to know.

The problem is the supermarkets want to handle books the same way they do cans of beans. and people like borders are fats becoming book supermarkets as opposed to bookshops.

we only need to look at the side adverts on here for BOL

BOL.com 60% off Bestseller and 20% off the rest.

how much profit is there really on a book ?

yes you may sell more books but if the profit margin is cut, by let us say 50% then you need to sell twice as many books to make the same profit, but in reality the costs are higher as you need to print and distribute twice as many books so the profit per book is probably cut by a bigger margin say 60% not 50% at which point a publisher may decide not to take a risk on an author at all as he/she needs to shift too much paper to make a meagre profit on an unknown.

Thats not the case - double the sales would actually reduce the cost per item, as so much of the costs are overheads that do not change to any great degree and the costs of buying paper, ink etc reduce if you buy in bulk.

Having said that, elspeth makes very good points about why the RRP should stay, and I now can see the effect it would have on authors.

Well we COULD write letters to our local newspapers and try to drum up popular indignation.... Where I live in rural-ish Cornwall all the letters are printed.... A great place to gripe!

Ani

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Maybe we could draft a skeletal letter voicing our condemnation? (Not an overly strong word in the circumstance, is it?)

Ani

Daisy

in part you are right but transport cost increase, stock holding cost increase, labour costs increase and the contribution from each book to overheads is smaller plus there is increased wear and tear on your equipment, thus increased maintenance costs and obviously the contribution to profit is reduced and thus your return on capital per book is smaller which may make it unprofitable or commercialy unacceptable to print that number for that much reduced profit and increased risk.

It doesn't always follow that the raw material costs will decrease either with many products there is a level below which the supplier can't go as it is unprofitable to do so and it is likely with the larger printers that they get the best rate already for paper and ink.

In essence the maxim is the highest profit you can achieve for the smallest turn over allowing for a sensible and realistic price and good contribution to overheads and return on your capital investment.

take care david

RRP is 'RECOMMENDED RESALE PRICE' and should not be confused with 'RETAIL PRICE MAINTENANCE'.

RPM was outlawed many years ago through a successful campaign by Tesco. The Book World has long had a situation where RRP (in the main) acts like the RPM whereby sellers are persuaded, forced or 'encouraged' to sell books at the price set by the Publishers (with minor exceptions).

It is the Publishers who are prepared to offer such high profit margins to the Supermarkets normally on a sale or return basis that enable the Supermarkets to offer books at deep discounts.

It is pointless protesting to MPs for the essential word in RRP is 'RECOMMENDED'. It is the way and the manner that the Book Industry, including all booksellers organise themselves that will have any major effects.

If books do become big business for Supermarkets my view is that the smaller bookshops will suffer. However go into these small bookshops and you will find a vast range of subject matter that the Supermarkets will not touch; added to which, it is very unlikely that your local Supermarket will order a specific book for you.

Len

Len

The supermarkets only offer a realtively small range of books they have jumped on the bandwagon of a scheme from what I can make out started by Borders who think they can set a precedent over here which they dare not try elsewhere. The report I heard indicated that if the overall market ( only 10% of books are sold in supermarkets) went down the highly discounted route then authors advances are a thing of the past and much smaller % overall will go to authors as despite them being the instigator of the book they are at the back of the queue when it comes to pay outs.

As for your point about smaller books shops, true in part, but if you take away the popular stuff from them by default of discount then it makes what is already a very difficult business to be in that bit more difficult and I think you will find the number of small independant shops declining further.

If Borders succeed then it will appy to all books and then the independant will not have that advantage you mention, will not be able to compete with borders etc on price and vanish completely.

David,
I don't disagree with you and you may well be correct as regards the small booksellers. I hope that their demise is not too rapid.

To deepest and most widespread impact into the market can be made by the retailers with the spread of retail outlets... that means the Supermarkets. Until now their interest in books has been very limited... but this could all change - and rapidly.

What is most important is the effect upon authors... here I agree with you.

Len