Hi Cruise, welcome to writewords!
I live in the harrow area, and there aren't any writers groups that I'm aware of, I haven't heard of the harrow writers circle, let us know if they're good!

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Hi Cruise, welcome to writewords!
I live in the harrow area, and there aren't any writers groups that I'm aware of, I haven't heard of the harrow writers circle, let us know if they're any good!

Hi Cruise, welcome to WW, and apologies for the slow response from me – I'm hibernating!

If you're thinking about setting up a new group, you can get a lot of help from here:

http://www.nawg.co.uk/

They have huggins of advice for new groups.

Dee

Hello everyone!

Thank you so much for all your enthusiastic and kind responses.

I joined this online writers' group nearly a week ago. Straight way, most of you proved how swiftly helpful you can be. I avoided all writers group for lots of reasons. The main reason for resisting the online groups is because of my procrastrination disease. I am currently in rehab to overcome this disabling problem. That's why I didn't reply to all your generous replies. I think my querry got 16 replies and over 300 hits in a very short period. Very impressive.

I avoided even checking the emails that came to say that someone had replied to my questions. I feared that if I log on here, I'll end up spending hours. So, I disciplined myself away from WriteWords. Then, last night, I spent a bit too long reading all the replies. I read all of them. And thank you so much for all those of you who contributed to the discussion. As a first time user of an online writers' group, I felt I was involved in a literary equivalent of a mass orgy !! And thanks again for making my first time unforgettable !

Why did I waste all those years in the virgin world of a reclusive?!!

Hello Bazz and everyone else !

I went to the Harrow Writers' Circle last Thursday. They meet every other Thursday at the Harrow Arts Centre. I listened to a few short stories, extracts from two novels, and I got to read out the synopsis of my first novel. I couldn't risk reading out the first few chapters of the novel at that early stage.

I enjoyed the experience. It's great to be with people who also see the world through the prism of printed words. I didn't know anyone who is really passionate about writing until I joined WriteWords and the 'real world' writers' group.

I was determined to be positive about the pieces that were read out aloud. Although, am not sure that anyone should take the comments of others too seriously. A work of literature should be judged on the page. When it is judged by hearing someone read it aloud, I don't think one can do justice to that work. What do you think? I felt like a panelist on X Factor. I had to give instant responsed about pieces that deserve to be 'read'.

I think it is vital to protect one's ego at the early stage of a writer's apprenticeship. This is why I'm not sure a writers' group in the real world is a good idea. Confidence is key to success in any area. I'm glad that I had already written over 500,000 words before I joined a writers group to read my words out aloud.

All the members were enthusiastic about my synopsis. They wanted to hear the first few chapters. But I am sceptical about letting the opinion of third parties at this early stage of a novel's creation. How can I maintain my own original vision if 15 people are giving me suggestions? That seems like a director in Hollywood being told by a test audience to do what they prefer to see on the screen. Do you think an original director like Baz Luhrman or David Lynch would pay much attention to anyone's comments?

I still want to be part of a writers' communinity. Both off and online. My reason is really for the socialising. It does feel great to have a shop talk about the craft of writing. I want to be with people who live and breathe literature. I want to be with people who want ask me a question like "Martin Ameeees? Who's that?"

I think if I want to be a genre novelist like Grisham or Rankin, I would certainly listen to many people's advice as I am working on a novel. But my heroes are Philip Roth and Don DeLillo. So, I'm going to take the risk and stick to my stubborn vision. How do you all feel about sharing your work before you have completed your final draft?

Thanks again for all your responses.


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Few typos in the last reply by me. I'm sure you know what I meant.

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I meant I want to be with people who WON'T ask me a question like "Martin Ameeees? Who's that?"

Good for you for standing up and reading. I must say, I agree that hearing a piece is quite different from seeing it written down. Some smaller groups which are real hard-core workshops actually circulate work in advance, for exactly that reason. I remember a writing tutor saying to me, of something I'd read aloud, 'Emma, if you hadn't given them different accents I wouldn't have been able to tell who was saying what: you haven't written them with distinct voices at all.' And it was perfectly true: in a sense, I'd given it a dimension in reading aloud that it didn't really have.

How do you all feel about sharing your work before you have completed your final draft?

I don't show it to a soul till I've got it as far as I can on my own - which is probably about draft four. I don't think it's about genre or literary, I think it's about how you deal with feedback. I can't decide what to do with comments - accept suggestions for solving problems, ignore them, or find a new way to solve them - until I have a reasonably secure sense of what the book actually is, in itself, and that won't be till I've written the whole and worked it over well. Later, feedback is essential - is what I'm trying to do getting across? Where are the saggy bits, the boring bits, the bits which are too boney and the bits which are over-written? Where have I left a hole in the plot or not seen some unconscious absurdity? Etc. On the other hand some writers find it hugely helpful to have some kind of feedback as they go, and it keeps them going for the long-haul. I think this is probably truer in a small group where you all get to know each others' work very well.

One of the advantages of WW is that you can pick and choose which aspects of it suit what you want. I would say, though, that you learn an astonishing amount from critting others' work, or from having something small of yours gone over with a fine-toothed comb, even if you feel that the larger-scale development of the novel is best kept private for a while longer.

Emma

How do you all feel about sharing your work before you have completed your final draft?

I suppose it depends on what one calls a 'final draft'. To me, that would b the one i'm about to send off to the Agents.
I keep mine fairly close to my chest until I'm reasonable happy with it, and then I'll put it out to readers and ask for comments - and that can be an exhilarating process; it's great to edit it when you've got a concenusus of opinon as to what works and what doesn't:
- And that is the important bit "concensus of opinion".
If you're in a group then you are looking for the parts that the majority off the listeners thing is wrong with it, rather than listening to the loudest or the most insistant voices amongst the group.
I read out some of my stuff at the CW course I go to, but I am now familiar with my tutor's biases, and I filter that out when I listen to her suggestions for changes.
I hear quite a lot on forums/groups 'whatever works for you', but, since I'm aiming for publication, I go with 'whatever works for the reader'.

Also, as an aside, I always my work aloud when I'm in the editing stage. You can pick out a lot minor technical mistakes such as typos, syntax, whether the prose flows, etc, if when your read it aloud.


- NaomiM

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apologies for the typos and missing words - I should probably have read this aloud before posting.

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I would say, though, that you learn an astonishing amount from critting others' work, or from having something small of yours gone over with a fine-toothed comb

I would second that. And it is best to have some things nipped in the bud at an early stage, than to carry them right through a mss and then, potentially, have a major rewrite on your hands at the end.

Hi Cruise,

I live in North London, am in the same position as you, but perhaps more desperate for real live feedback while I endure this phase. I'm on a second novel but trying to get the first (writing admired, several fulls, and a few excruciatingly close take ups including one that dragged on for a year)out still.

I've been in a local group/CW class a few years back - no longer exists - while starting out and I found the different responses helpful at that stage and encouraging. I got used to reading out my stuff after initial resistance, saw the value of the spoken word, and looked forward to the feedback. (I don't write genre fiction either.) But it no longer exists, was a mixed crowd and can be very slow in terms of feed back that's going to help, whether positive or critical. I don't want to go backwards so I'm thinking of City Lit course where there are more advanced level students but I need a little guidance.

I think I'm on topic with this and hope you don't mind me asking for myself here in your question ....

There are some very good teachers at City Lit, based in Covent Garden. They charge, but you get the benefit of professional novelist tutors giving feedback and if you click with a handful of the other students could form a group yourselves. I've had brilliant feedback this way in the past. Fellow students can be very good critics - the standard there is strong, other students can be very focused and go on to be published

Can Cerys please - or anyone - recommend any course or tutor at City lit? An advanced group In London north or Central?

Thanks