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Quizzicism (2)

by Zettel 

Posted: 17 April 2005
Word Count: 24

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Quizzicism (2)

When I said
I'd forgive and forget,
I forgave but
couldn't forget;
that forgiving
without forgetting
is not forgiveness

Zettel 2005

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Comments by other Members

joanie at 06:45 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
Hi Zettel, whilst your first Quizzicism made my head hurt(!) this is no Quizzicism to me but a piece of wisdom.

I enjoyed it very much.


Al T at 09:34 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
Interesting, Z, but here's a quizzicism in return: how can you unknow what you know?


paul53 [for I am he] at 09:48 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
As Adele said, an interesting piece.
How can you unknow what you know? I call it turning fifty.

joanie at 09:52 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
Yes, despite my comment, I agree that it is interesting!


Zettel at 10:25 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
Hi guys

The trouble I guess with these is that they can sound pompous and/or arch. The besetting vice of philoosphers is to take things, especially themselves, too seriously. So just as I like to play with words for fun, like picking up pebbles on the beach, so with ideas. But just as with the pebbles, there is something that makes them intereresting.

Nice one Paul!

Thanks Joannie. I'm not often accused of being wise! Rightly.

Ad - straight to the heart of it as usual. The answer I guess is - only through true forgiveness. That's why it's so tough. You do have to unpack 'know' a little though.

Regards all and as ever, thanks for the ocmments.



Al T at 13:03 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
Paul, I would like to think that I'll be near the top of Mount Wisdom by the time I'm fifty, but at the moment I'm still tripping up in the foothills! However, if you're talking about failing memory, I really think that could be a blessing sometimes.

Z, you've inspired me to write an important letter. But don't worry, I won't hold you responsible for the result!


Zettel at 13:11 on 18 April 2005  Report this post

Phew - that's a relief.

Intriguing though.

Bon Chance


Ticonderoga at 14:48 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
There's a very nice series getting under way here. Agree with all the compliments above. More, please!



engldolph at 21:20 on 18 April 2005  Report this post
hi Z -

I like the idea of zettel-pebbles..ideas for the day to get your brain moving... but think maybe they are better when you leave them as questions..rather than answers....sort of like Zen koans.

In this case, I'm not sure I agree with the thought in thits one...
in my mind, forgiving has very little to do with forgetting...
as humans, we don't really forget..particularly the things we are asked to forgive..yet, we can still forgive....and perhaps act "as if" we forget..at least until we get alzheimer's.


Zettel at 11:31 on 19 April 2005  Report this post
Thanks Ti

Mike - You're probably right on explanation but as this one's gone this way..... it's tricky because we are trying to hold a stable emotional, moral position while tugged in two different directions by different senses of the concept of 'forget'. Physiologically a brain trace has been left, so in principle perhaps it must be recoverable. But it is part of being people that we cannot consciously recall all such brain traces. So I conclude that 'fogetting' is quality of the person, not the brain. The more common form of this is that forgetting is something that happens to us rather than something we do, (even before hitting fifty or getting the big A).

Clearly we have a concept of an effort of will to remember things whether by learning poetry or in the remembrance practices deep within our culture. The question in this case is whether we can make sense of effort of will to forget. Too big an issue to go into here but the forgetting involved in forgiving is of this kind I think and has to do with the most important values in one's relationhips as defined by what I woud call one's attention.

There is no certainty here (when you thnk about - there can't be). As an example we might say: are we ever able to trust anyone who we know has lied to us on a particular occasion in the past? My answer is - sometime yes and sometimes no. If the answer is ever yes: then that is what I call forgetting in this sense and therefore what I have called true forgiveness.

Sorry, my interest is philosophical not preachy. But it is often hard to tell the difference. The philsophical fascination for me is that such cases raise the issue of to what extent our feeling and behaviour are subject to our will. Science will tell you - not at all - without noticing that the evidence they adduce to justify this is irrelevant to the problem.

Enough already. Sorry folks I went off on one again.



gard at 00:43 on 20 April 2005  Report this post
Funny fun piece Zettal !


Zettel at 00:45 on 20 April 2005  Report this post



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