Strathclyde Suite
Posted: 02 August 2004 Word Count: 435
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1
This is the road I wandered after school, mapping the march-trees and the mossy dykes, walking in water, taming a nodding horse, dawdling to fright some jittery little fish or monitor the heavy visiting bees.
The span of beauty is too great for us, the green excess of earth, its April blood. But once upon a brief, long age I lived nomadic summer days, a make-believe prehistory governed by the sun.
My pioneers had travelled every trail and settled every plain. Their calendar was frost and the returning rose; their pantheon of field-sprites, gruesome or benign, was known by hips and haws, or hardy thorns or geans that lean away from seasonal westerlies.
2
You arrive at the city over soaring moors. The landmarks are white steadings, lighthouse-stark. You seem at the edge of a different sky, and then
there is a land beyond the sky: the broad electric meadow of the city, under the early stars, its amber blossoms everywhere, sparse only far away by the western ocean or the hills. I have no name
for the colours of the hills: not green, not blue; they are the colour, I suppose, of hillsides grassed and gorsed and marvelled at in failing light, on this one night, a cool rose-grey, a darkening rose. Apartment blocks surround the college towers, like giants that have wandered down from the romantic glens
and stand amazed. And I have seen the water-meadows of this city too, sham tarns that never heal, beaches for half-wild children toying with paid-out audiotape and wrecks and trademarked jetsam; and the apartment blocks, cracked-windowed crates through which they squeal with the scrawny timelessness of gulls. In the city's
scrambled heart, an old man crowned with a trampled hat is fiercely pedalling. Beard like a mouse's nest, he rides four lanes of motors. Presently his soft bag quickens, and a black cat scales his dangerous shoulder, rocking, goat-sure, tail like a pennon. I am native here
among the monuments to famous men whose labour forces built the money-towers, whose fighting forces have made desolation out of cities such as this. I am aboriginal.
3
In autumn I stand at the ridge, the topmost reach of my road, where the land falls away. The nearer stands of grey or lichened beech recede to distant blue, then the level sea. In my head I hear the tide. Now ghosts are gathering on this hill, I decide to think. Stock-still in the sober gateway of death they have lingered, looking back; like me they cannot cease to see the drowsing sky, the sweet horizon tipsy with bramble-mist.
Comments by other Members
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James Graham at 20:09 on 02 August 2004
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This poem was published some time ago in Poetry Scotland, edited by Sally Evans. Throwing modesty to the winds I have to say that whenever I look at the last four lines I can't believe I wrote them! But you can say what you like about the rest of the poem - it's one that (apart from those four lines, maybe the whole last section) I still feel isn't quite right. If you see anything, any word, phrase, image, section of the poem that doesn't seem to work - please say so. Or the whole thing - it really is three poems written at different times and flung together. Do they belong together?
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Nell at 07:29 on 03 August 2004
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James, this is stunning. I've read it aloud twice and was almost in tears at the end. The beauty of the language and description seem to create an intensely visual experience that is like seeing with fresh eyes, and the feeling it evoked was distinctly weird - almost mystical - as if I'd experienced those things and they were part of my memories. You say that you feel the poem isn't quite right and I hesitate to mention this - there was only one word that caused a slight stumble, and that was 'seasonal' at the end of the third stanza. I wondered if the line would be better without it. I could well be wrong though.
Nell.
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olebut at 08:33 on 03 August 2004
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James a superb trilogy, oddly enough I think the word I would remove is in line 4 and it is 'little' partly because I think it is not needed and partly because it is in this insatnce an ugly word which spoils the imagery and the flow.
As for Nell's 'seasonal' I understand what she means but I think you should leave it in, otherwise 'westerlies' would be naked and lose much of its meaning and impact.
take care
david
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roovacrag at 21:16 on 03 August 2004
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James a great poem.. think all is said above.
What more can I add.
xx Alice
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gard at 00:44 on 04 August 2004
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Hi James
beautiful rhythm tone and flow..
especially really love
by hips and haws, or hardy thorns or geans |
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they cannot cease to see the drowsing sky,
the sweet horizon tipsy with bramble-mist. |
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amongst others. Rich, filled with character, depth and compassion. Need to read again to take it all in...
G
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miffle at 01:19 on 04 August 2004
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James, one that I will come back too and read again... Especially loved the richness of colour and pattern and texture... Quite a journey! A few thoughts:
Loved (as Gard) the sound of 'hips and haws'
Wondered how 'thorns and geans' might work (?) Guess 'and' instead of 'or' would alter the sense... Feel that 'and' connects the sounds of 'gean' and 'lean' more distinctly and perhaps I like that more (?)
'heavy' bees: nectar? pollen?
Loved the idea of 'jetsam'. Loved the unexpected loveliness of the City pastoral:
electric meadow of the city |
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You could encourage me to live in one with descriptions like this! I guess, it's all about the way we see things! You see the city here in a new fresh way: gave me new eyes, thanks!
And I have seen the water-meadows of this city too... |
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Soundly strangely familiar in rhythm / syntax / 1st four words (?)... Eliot 'Wasteland' '... come and go.. Michaelangelo' (?) (sorry, forgot full bit but feels similar)
'And I have seen...' stanza very moving: you have seen too the flip-side of the 'fairy' city - the poverty, the scars, the struggles and yet when you write about them they are not ugly, in fact, the opposite.
scrawny timelessness of gulls |
| is perfect! I always find the gulls' cries rasping, lonely. I hear them here.
Love the humour of the 'black cat' incident ;-) You write about these people compassionately: it seems here that you are both observer and in amongst them.
Re. the poems as a trilogy:
The trilogy definitely complements the feel of the journey... That said though I feel that (1) and (2) have such strong opening lines that they almost feel as if they want to stand on their own: well, at least printed on separate pages. Both of these lines carry pride: both to me seem to be saying 'Here, Look, See...' as if you are guiding a 'non-native' around! I like that.
So much in these! Enjoyed. Kind regards, Nikki
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miffle at 01:29 on 04 August 2004
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James, a further thought... Almost felt as if I wanted to read the title as simply 'Strathclyde' (?). Perhaps I just find myself suddenly rather irriated by the word 'suite': perhaps it sounds now to me a little too high-society (?) for the ideas presented in the poem. Without the word 'suite' I hear the word 'Strathcylde' pure and unadulterated - your experience of the city seems worthy of that! 'Strathclyde' seems to me too to link more to the idea in the poem of 'homage to the city' (?)... Or maybe a different word in place of 'suite'. Kind regards, Nikki
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tinyclanger at 15:04 on 04 August 2004
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Gosh, these are superb, and along with Nell, I found them very moving and intimate, they do draw the reader into their world, it’s beautifully but lightly realised.
As someone who tries to draw on memories of place and a childhood connection to ‘the land’ in my poems, I found the whole work very evocative.
I don’t have any queries about words or sections really. I became aware you’d used ‘apartment blocks’ twice in the second one, which is probably something I’d avoid in my work, but the separate images you draw are so strong I don’t think it matters. I’m OK with Ole’s ‘little’ (gives just a touch more detail and for me jittery fish just have to be little ones!) and Nell’s ‘westerlies’, (I like the extra length to that line as I read it, gives it an anchor, a firm ending to the poem as I toy with all the syllables of “seasonal westerlies”!).
I love the subtle connections through colour, the straining to find a colour to fit...how true that is! I was recently trying to describe the moors in Yorkshire when the purple of the heather is just beginning to add “a fuzz“, and it was so hard to think “what colour is this?” There simply isn’t one to describe it. Your “cool rose-grey, a darkening rose” is lovely, I was right there.
For me all three works suggest belonging, an ownership, an ability to ‘make known’ a place. Not only through description, but also through contrasts, through histories and pre-history, through connections.
I love the child memories of the first and then the way the second piece returns to that in a very different context with the urban child, but still uses the language of myth, pre-history and imagination.
I love the last two stanzas of the second piece. The contrast of the guy and cat on the bike with the statues - and yet the connection in that they are all part of the city and its constantly self-regenerating character. The cat image is bizzarely splendid.
But its the last lines of those stanzas that ‘speak’ to me. “I am native” - again belonging, understanding, part of the city’s rhythm and life, pride... “I am aboriginal” - also belonging, pre-fall perhaps? Pre the achievements of the famous men, but also made a victim by their deeds? And of course all the other ‘extra’ meanings of the idea of ‘natives’ and ‘aboriginal’ Simplicity plundered? driven away from ancient environments? Both words to me suggest the belonging, but at the same time are intrinsically linked to loss and alienation.
Oh, and they are fabulous ways to end the stanzas. Finite, definite, statements of belief and certainty.
I think because of this, I am almost reluctant that poem 3 is there. I want to stop on the very definite, but very layered idea of ‘aboriginal’....
I also think 1 and 2 link closely, whereas with 3 I drift off again into the beautiful “bramble-mist”....yet maybe that’s how you want to / should leave the reader? A return to the natural, the evocative. Perhaps what they should take away from the piece is the overwhelming peace and beauty of the natural, the poems take us full circle. And what matters is not man and his monuments, his half-wild children and trademarked jetsam, but the “mossy dykes” and “nodding horse” and “sweet horizon” ?
Thank you for posting these James, I have found so much in them to enjoy. I don’t think I’ve helped your ponderings in the slightest, but would love to hear how your views on them are resolved - if they are!
Best Wishes,
tc
Helen
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Ticonderoga at 16:34 on 04 August 2004
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Weel, this is a bonny bit o screivin; nae doot yer heid's the size o a fitba wi a the praise, but ah cannae hud ma wheesht & no add ma bittock - this is yin tae mak the hairt gleg ayont tellin & bring a drappy o watter tae the ee forby......a michty piece o wark, an nae mistake!
M
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James Graham at 21:31 on 04 August 2004
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Many thanks to all. I'm glad you enjoyed the poems so much. Thanks too for pointing out various questionable words etc. One immediate response - Nikki, you're right, 'Suite' is definitely wrong in the title. Strathclyde...something, but not suite. It's evidence of doubt as to whether the poems really go together, an effort to make this word do the work of tying them together, like a ballet suite or something. And Strathclyde Suite is also the name of a suite of rooms in the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall. No, it won't do. But I'll post another response soon, after I've thought about other points that have been made.
James.
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engldolph at 16:21 on 05 August 2004
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Hi James,
To me this group of 3 poems explores primarily ideas of “personal” identity and history, while being seamlessly framed in a rich exploration of visual images of natural and city landscapes.
You capture a strong personal tension between the urban experience and the time-less pull of the beauty of the moors in a way that is not overly nostalgic. You are both native and aboriginal (the latter word made me think of an Australian Aboriginee wondering in from the outback and being physically trapped by necessity in the city…also told in the description of the pedalling man).
Some of my favourite lines are those describing the indescribable colour of the hills seen as if looking out from the city. These lines seemed to distil this sense of being trapped in the city but surrounded by magnetic beauty. The line: “The span of beauty is too great for us” seemed to say (to me) that the natural beauty is almost too much to live in all the time (unless you are a child).
The pieces moved in time. From childhood to older age (the final ghosts). From pre-history, to pioneers, to city builders. For me, this took the subject out of the specific to the universal, deepening its layers and its impact.
Some of my favourite lines:
**
But once upon a brief, long age I lived
nomadic summer days, a make-believe
prehistory governed by the sun.
**
You seem at the edge of a different sky, and then
there is a land beyond the sky:
the broad
electric meadow of the city, under the early stars,
its amber blossoms everywhere,
**
half-wild children
toying with paid-out audiotape and wrecks
and trademarked jetsam; and the apartment blocks,
cracked-windowed crates
FOr me The 3rd piece does not quite have the direct strength of the first two, but it does work well as a summing up, a looking back from the autumn of a person’s life.
Very much enjoyed.
Mike
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James Graham at 22:27 on 05 August 2004
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I think the main problem I had with this 'trilogy'/'triptych' was that the three poems didn't seem to go together, especially the last one. There's a connecting thread that readers generally wouldn't be likely to see: the road in line 1 of poem 1 is the same road that leads to the city, and the scene in poem 3 is from a viewpoint just off the same road, on the way back from the city. (It's actually the B769!) From the top of that rise, if you look one way you see the city, and if you turn the other way you see the land rolling down to the Firth of Clyde. The three parts are also, roughly, childhood, adulthood and old age. The geographical framework, though, is parochial, local, something readers outside the area might not understand. There might be ways of working the geography into the poem a bit more, so that readers who don't know the area might get their bearings, see the layout better. I'll think about that. I realise, looking back to old files, that I started this poem - or some early version of it - in 1987! Sometime in the 90s it ran to about 500 lines - or at least the bits and pieces and spin-offs did. So in the course of the next five-year plan I might be able to link the three parts of the poem better without ruining it.
Poem three could also begin, like the other two, with a guide's address to the reader. 'In autumn we stand at the ridge', 'Come with me in autumn to the topmost/reach of my road' - but the rest of poem 3 would have to change to accommodate the other person. I'm not sure that would work - which I think actually reflects the fact that poem 3 is personal and solitary and calls for the reader to eavesdrop in the way you do on personal poetry, rather than feel drawn into the poem, to be a 'participant'. That's something else for the five-year plan, though I feel that maybe poem 3 will have to stay as it is, a bit different from the other two.
On some individual words, your feedback mainly leads me to accept them as they are rather than change them. I think 'little' is ok, though the phrase 'jittery little fish' doesn't trip off the tongue. The westerlies are seasonal here, and 'seasonal' ties in with other mentions of seasons in poem 1. (And 3.) 'Suite' in the title is wrong. Is 'triptych' any better, or is it even more pretentious?
By the way, the old man on his bike with a black cat in a shoulder bag is real. He's a Glasgow 'worthy'. More than one Glaswegian, reading or hearing the poem, has mentioned having spotted him too. The cat really did climb on to his shoulder as he weaved through the city-centre traffic.
Helen, and Mike (engldolph), your takes on the prehistoric or aboriginal theme exactly correspond with mine. The pioneers in poem 1 aren't wagon-train pioneers but prehistoric pioneers. The poem betrays (I think that's the right word) a real thing I have about ancient, ancient times.
Many thanks again for all your comments. And Mike (Ticonderoga), I'm blithe at yer weel-hairtit remarks.
James.
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tinyclanger at 07:41 on 06 August 2004
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Very interesting to hear the 'history' of this piece, James...makes me feel hope for all the half-done things I cart around with me waiting for them to mature.
I'm not keen on 'Triptych' (can't spell it, for a start)
I'd prefer just simple 'Strathclyde Trilogy.' Maybe it doesn't dazzle, but it gives the sense of place, and the connection - and then the poems themselves dazzle and draw the more subtle and the deeper links.
Or you could try something with road in it I guess...The Road to Strathclyde?...Oh, I'm useless at titles!
(Feeling in Colour is still Feeling in Colour, I'm afraid!)
Or change the 3rd poem's beginning to say I am/I stand again on "the road" - would something like that that link it sufficiently to the road of no1?
:-)
x
tc
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fireweed at 19:51 on 06 August 2004
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James, my comment is a little late but I have been very interested in the dialogue which has unravelled in the thread so far.
Strangely, it's the second part which stands out for me as almost a separate poem that doesn't need the other two parts. There's something visionary about it starting with the very powerful " You arrive at the city over the soaring moors." What follows is so powerful, drawing on all the senses but especially sight - the vision seems almost apocalyptic. Is this Baghdad, Beirut or Glasgow,or Srebrenica? It transcends its personal origins for me and seems to speak of universal human issues - "unaccomodated man" perhaps? Apart from " glens" there's nothing specific to reveal the location apart from the title. Which takes the reader back to the personal origins of the whole....
I love the lyrical movement of the lines and wonderful language, which has already been mentioned.
Apologies for the enraptured ramble - there are aspects of part 1 and 3 which I like very much; and it could work as a trilogy but the first and last sections may need to be extended to complement the second.
Fascinating poetry.
Anna
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Zettel at 12:51 on 07 August 2004
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James - belatedly, I had to find it.
I really can't think of a single word in this I'd change. Evocative, resonant thought-provoking. Everything others have said above.
I am so much a beginner at trying to write poetry that the following comments are made with real trepidation (and that ain't false modesty). Taking a deep breath therefore: picking up on one or two comments above including, indeed especially yours, the following thoughts occur.
I feel no great benefit in the '3' being presented 'broken up'1,2,3. There seems more than enough unity of vision and evocative linkage to simply present them as a single poem....except
....there is a distinct variation in structure between each which I guess could simply reflect the distinct phases (seasons?) of a life. There is though a dilemma that the overall imaginative unity of the pieces(s) can feel fragmented by the 3 different verse structures.
On the structure in 2: the split line between stanzas seems to me to work best with and . Also . Though something strikes me about the last - see below. Even if you just left the numbers out and presented it as a single poem I don't think these variations would undermine the thematic unity.
My last comment is a bit of a cheek given that I don't thnk I shall ever write a poem of this concentrated quality: I love the last stanza of 2, yet something in me wants to re-order it thus:
among the monuments to famous men
whose labour forces built the money-towers,
whose fighting forces have made desolation
out of cities such as this.
I am native. I am aboriginal. |
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The intention is to reinforce the move from 'native' as in "I come from here"; to something deeper still and more ancient which your lines evoke.
(A problematic change as it would leave a difficulty with the split line structure).
Sorry I've got so much to say for someone who is uncertain. It seemed to me that there was a 'seasonal' structure to the 3 pieces with the Spring of youth and a kind of Summer of adulthood. The last explicitly refers to Autumn yet is a least a wintry thought. Perhaps I am taking the seasonal allusion too literally? If it was part of your thinking we could all benefit greatly as we might get a bit more of a superb poem to savour.
With admiration
Zettel
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James Graham at 21:19 on 07 August 2004
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Helen, Anna, Zettel - your thoughtful comments deserve a thoughtful reply. Will reply soon.
James.
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miffle at 11:03 on 08 August 2004
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Re. titles: I think of the three words 'trilogy' 'triptych' 'suite' I think the only possible for me would be 'trilogy' but even then I don't think it's quite right (?) i.e. it perhaps reminds me too much of blockbuster films...
I wonder what you might have called each separate poem were you to title each one (?): perhaps that would unlock a title (?)... My gut feeling is that a word more 'native' to Strathclyde would be the one (?)
Kind regards, Nikki
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James Graham at 21:31 on 08 August 2004
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Among some very interesting comments I tend to go for Zettel's suggestion that the 1,2,3 should go and the whole thing should be presented as a continuous poem - maybe with some adjustments. I've had that advice before, from an editor (on a different poem) - don't split it into numbered sections, you've tied enough knots to draw it together, it won't fall apart. At the same time, Anna's idea that the second part could stand as a separate poem is persuasive, especially if there's the possibility that it could be taken as any city. (Even though there are some local particulars: you don't arrive at Baghdad over soaring moors, but it doesn't matter because the life of cities, wealth and poverty and a history of ordinary people going on in spite of 'famous men' - Glasgow, London, Baghdad etc all share this.) Helen's suggestion that the road should be pointed up a bit more also needs thinking about. So...what I'll do, I'll post a revision. It'll take a little time...say a year or so. Only kidding. A week or so. As for 'half-done things', Helen, and waiting for them to mature, it's the poet's lot. The trick is to have a few that are nearly mature - you can send them off to publishers, because if you wait for them to be perfect they'll never see the light of day - as well as lots of others that are more callow, at various stages short of maturity. That way you keep production going.
Nikki, I don't think it's going to be triptych or trilogy. An aboriginal word, perhaps. The title might take a year.
James.
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miffle at 15:47 on 10 August 2004
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James, re. aboriginal words: now I re-read your poem it does seem a bit of a walkabout... Nikki
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James Graham at 19:02 on 11 August 2004
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Strathclyde Poems
Origin
This is the road I wandered after school,
mapping the march-trees and the mossy dykes,
walking in water, taming a nodding horse,
dawdling to fright some jittery little fish
or monitor the heavy visiting bees.
The span of beauty is too great for us,
the green excess of earth, its April blood.
But once upon a brief, long age I lived
nomadic summer days, a make-believe
prehistory governed by the sun.
My pioneers had travelled every trail
and settled every plain. Their calendar
was frost and the returning rose; their pantheon
of field-sprites, gruesome or benign, was known
by hips and haws, or hardy thorns or geans
that lean away from seasonal westerlies.
Tribe
You arrive at the city over soaring moors.
The landmarks are white steadings, lighthouse-stark.
You seem at the edge of a different sky, and then
there is a land beyond the sky: the broad
electric meadow of the city, under the early stars,
its amber blossoms everywhere, sparse only far away
by the western ocean or the hills. I have no name
for the colours of the hills: not green,
not blue; they are the colour, I suppose,
of hillsides grassed and gorsed and marvelled at
in failing light, on this one night, a cool
rose-grey, a darkening rose. Apartment blocks
surround the college towers, like giants
that have wandered down from the romantic glens
and stand amazed. And I have seen
the water-meadows of this city too, sham tarns
that never heal, beaches for half-wild children
toying with paid-out audiotape and wrecks
and trademarked jetsam; and the apartment blocks,
cracked-windowed crates through which they squeal
with the scrawny timelessness of gulls. In the city's
scrambled heart, an old man crowned with a trampled hat
is fiercely pedalling. Beard like a mouse's nest,
he rides four lanes of motors. Presently his soft bag
quickens, and a black cat scales his dangerous shoulder,
rocking, goat-sure, tail like a pennon. I am native here
among the monuments to famous men
whose labour forces built the money-towers,
whose fighting forces have made desolation
out of cities such as this. I am aboriginal.
Rite of Passage
Wait with me here one day, one day in autumn,
at the summit of this road. Northeastward
the city shines; but today I turn to the land.
The nearer stands of grey or lichened beech
recede to distant blue, then the level sea.
In my head I hear the tide. Now ghosts
are gathering on this hill, I decide to think.
Stock-still in the sober gateway of death
they have lingered, looking back; like me
they cannot cease to see the drowsing sky,
the sweet horizon tipsy with bramble-mist.
It's quite a minimal revision - a new opening to poem 3, maybe pointing up the road a bit more as a link between the poems, as well as the effect of there being a sort of 'guide'. More of a hint of the geography too?
Zettel, your suggestion as to putting 'I am native here. I am aboriginal' in one line was appealing, but I couldn't for the life of me get another link phrase to replace 'I am native here' in the earlier line. I can only suppose that the reader, coming to 'aboriginal', might look back to 'native' and see that it means more than 'come from here'.
Anna, I tend to agree that the second poem stands out. The three are still together here, but I might consider publishing poem 2 on its own.
New title - forget triptych, trilogy, suite and gallery. The simplest word will do.
If anyone doesn't like the sub-titles, just wish them away and imagine centred asterisks (but not 1, 2, 3) between the poems.
James.
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fireweed at 20:42 on 11 August 2004
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James, I can see the dilemma of these poems - to keep them as a sequence or focus on the middle one ? I think the change in the title to "Poems" is better because it leaves each poem the option of being read as a complete unit which perhaps does most justice to each. The change to the opening to part 3 links it more strongly to the middle section, but then the first part seems more of a Prologue. ( I couldn't help thinking of Wordsworth in the opening verses ).
Having re-read the second section, I can see even more to admire about it, especially the fusion of city and nature in so many of the phrases: electric meadows, Apartment blocks...like giants that have wandered down from the romantic glens, water-meadows of the city, sham tarns. This kind of patterning is very strong in unifying the natural and the man-made which is what city/town life is in the main. In this case, because of the first part, the references to being "native" and "aboriginal" gain meaning by also referring to your roots in the city.
I do like these poems very much. Do you think you might go on to add to the group?
fireweed
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James Graham at 11:57 on 24 August 2004
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The second poem does seem to stand out for most readers, so there's ne reason really why it couldn't appear on its own. Fireweed, I'm not sure there'll be any more to go with these. There are other bits and pieces based on things seen in Glasgow or the country round about, but they don't really fit with these three.
Thanks again, everyone, for your positive and helpful comments.
James.
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tinyclanger at 12:13 on 28 August 2004
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I think the little revisions you have made on the third part of this are excellent, they really tie it all together for me. And I think the central image, feeling, sense I carry away from the poem is one of ‘belonging’ To know this poem is, in a sense, to know the poet.
I’ve been thinking of it as a kind of ‘seven ages ‘ poem, (OK, three ages, but you get the idea) The first is obviously the child, that exquisite awareness of the world around him, and the way that his whole world is governed by the ebb and flow of the seasons. ‘Pioneers’ too seems to me a child-word, from cowboy films...and it links / contrasts with ‘native’ and ‘aboriginal’ later in the poem, a connection I didn’t see in my earlier readings.
‘Tribe’ is a beautiful poem, I agree with others that its the strongest piece,but I don’t feel it dominates...it’s simply perhaps the finding of the adult voice, (the second age), and a conception that one can live in harmony with the country, yet also belong to the city - to me this city isn’t necessarily just the alien place many poets construct. No doubt the description of the city using natural images helps with this, it seems to make it part of the natural landscape, something that even the spirits from the glens come to wonder at. That’s a very clever image, they come to wonder, not scorn or fear or destroy.
I see the third age in the third poem, to me is has the voice of an older man, perhaps feeling reflective, looking back. The dual nature of the man comes into play again, “the city shines but today I turn to the land”
I like the way we are drawn in to look with the poet, the ‘guide’ here shows the reader his world..and though this is the only time we are directly spoken to, I think this point is just a bald statement of what has been happening all along. We have shared this place with the poet, lived it with him, shared that sense of ‘belonging’.
I could waffle on but I won’t. Its a lovely piece, James, full of treasures. About a place, but also about a person...
I have a piece half done about the place closest to my heart and if it ever turns out to be half as beautiful as this, I will feel I’ve done the place some justice.
Thanks for posting it and sharing it with us.
Helen
tc
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miffle at 13:06 on 28 August 2004
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It's a thumbs up from me for the revision. 'Poems' is just perfect: for me gives the poems now a more humble, more honest ring which fits them like a glove. This poem to me seems to contain all the words of the Universe and in their original born order too. Wow! How did you do that? The kind of poem in fact that leaves me wondering if there is anything left to say... Nikki :-)
NB How did I mist the last line in the original! Perhaps now the structure to the last poem leads me to it more slowly.
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miffle at 13:09 on 28 August 2004
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Also like the introduction of 'Wait with me here one day, one day in autumn,': continues the image of the speaker as guide for me. Gives the 3 poems I think more balance: balances the last poem with the first two. Gives the poems an immediacy: makes them more of an experience. Nikki
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miffle at 13:13 on 28 August 2004
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NB I like the sub-titles. I think them understated, simple, quiet; i.e. they do not detract from the beauty of each poem and because they are quiet they give each poem space.
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miffle at 13:15 on 28 August 2004
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'how did I mist the last line in the orignal?' ;-) Definitely not missed it now! Do wonder roughly how many hours these poems have taken? Each thought so developed... Nikki
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James Graham at 19:26 on 30 August 2004
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Many thanks again, Nikki, Helen and everyone, for your thoughts on these poems. You've helped me to finally get them to a finished state. I don't think they'll have to go through any more changes after this. On my old computer (Macintosh, by the way - nearly twelve years old and still in perfect working order! But can't be connected to the internet) there's a 24-page file, dated 1997, full of the workings and reworkings of these poems. Seven years and the job's done.
I'm due to make a new submission to Jacqueline Marcus (www.Forpoetry.com) - she starts reading submissions again in September - and I might just send 'Tribe', the middle poem, on its own and see how that goes.
James.
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lieslj at 13:45 on 11 September 2004
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I am struck by how much I learn from reading about this process. It is an honour to witness this dialogue between yourself and your work, and your willingness to share it this way is a gift in its own right. Thank you for your candid self scrutiny. It teaches me how to 'sit' with a poem, with uncertainty and lack of clarity. Also, it reminds me how the process of workshopping opens the door to strange and unpredictable development in one's work.
Late in the day, I add my two cents: I really like the edits you did, and the sub-titles seem apt and effective.
I hope your submission is receiving the attention it deserves.
Regards
Liesl
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James Graham at 19:30 on 13 September 2004
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Liesl, thanks for your positive comment. Maybe it's not always best to sit with a poem for seven years! On second thoughts, let it take as long as it takes...Elizabeth Bishop left poems unfinished for years, I believe.
I had an email from Jacqueline Marcus (For Poetry) to say sorry, they're not reading any submissions until Spring, because they're doing a site makeover. That's two sites where I usually publish now closed to submissions for several months, for similar reasons. The way it's going, they'll spend more time making changes than publishing poems. My next port of call, with the same poems, will be Three Candles.
James.
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tinyclanger at 21:02 on 13 September 2004
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James, just a query, do you submit mostly to online journals or do you do the rounds with traditional print-based ones too?
I'm just starting to try and find my way through the maze. (One success thus far, with Aesthetica, due out in Oct which I'm ridiculously pleased with!) From what you imply it seems one gradually builds up a list of favoured outlets, but it all seems a bit endless at the moment!
x
tc
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fireweed at 10:31 on 14 September 2004
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James, I'm intrigued by the names of these sites - For Poetry and Three Candles. Are they available through subscription? It isn't easy finding outlets for poetry. Is there a difference between online and print published magazines in how they select etc.
I've never considered publishing on the web before - any advice appreciated.
Anna
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James Graham at 11:51 on 14 September 2004
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There are no subscriptions to pay at either of these sites - you just register. Online publishers have more space and can accept more submissions, but they sometimes give themselves a break and temporarily stop reading submissions, because they're snowed under. The quality of work varies a lot from site to site - on some, it's endless pages of either verses in greetings-card style or very banal free verse, or a toxic mixture of both. Anna and Helen, I'm sure neither of you would want your work to appear in that company. Others have very good quality work. The addresses of these two are:
www.threecandles.org
www.Forpoetry.com
As I mentioned, For Poetry isn't accepting anything until Spring. But why not have a look at Three Candles?
I really must investigate more sites sometime, for myself and also so that I can advise WW poets better. Meanwhile another place to look might be:
www.findpoetry.com/searchnow/Poetry_Publishing
- though I've only glanced at this and can't say how useful it is.
James.
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Anj at 15:57 on 30 September 2004
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Wow, it took forever to scroll through the comments! I loved these, and I felt they utterly belonged together. Reading the first, I was back in my country childhood; the second, a student coming to the big city; the third, where I'm at now, more drawn towards that countryside again. Although I don't think I'm quite as old as the narrator just yet!
Take care
Andrea
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James Graham at 16:12 on 30 September 2004
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Thanks, Andrea, for your positive comment. I'm glad you related to the poems. It's nice to see a new response after the poems have been there so long.
James.
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lang-lad at 19:22 on 12 August 2005
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Dear James,
My late arrival comment here I hope will not jar you back to old pastures and nor do I intend it to jar with the fascinating accumulation above - I've so enjoyed reading it all but really I had few worries with the whole thing from the start I was so transported.
However if I'm butting in here it is just to echo your own feelings on those last four lines and wonder out loud at what it is that makes some things raise the hairs on the back of the neck and make one weep? Whatever it is you've done it here, as you know yourself already. Stunning and lovely.
I'm away to find that spot on the B769.
eliza
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