The Mind in the Cave (2)
Posted: 09 February 2015
Word Count: 291
Summary: Version 2. Partly dismantled and rebuilt. Still maybe not in proper working order.
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The Mind in the Cave (2)
When we speak of them,we have to say
perhaps, or probably, or almost certainly.
But almost, almost certainly
they understood what we have called
acoustics. Painted their vibrant stags
and bison where the sound was good.
And the drums would beat, and the pulse
of the mountain would respond.
The hollow bones would bell and whinny
and the watchful stag and horse
would say they understood.
We try to read a wisdom
never meant for us: unearth
their shards, and dust them off,
and guess; decode and annotate
their wordless images, read them
as metaphor. We cannot hear
the truth they told to one another
against the freezing wind, the days when hunters
returned empty-handed, malevolence unseen beyond
the community of the campfire: we speak
to the living Earth. It answers us.
The Mind in the Cave (1)
When we speak of them, we have to say
perhaps, or probably, or almost certainly.
But almost, almost certainly
they understood what we have called
acoustics. Painted their vibrant stags
and bison where the sound was good.
And the drums would beat, and the pulse
of the mountain would respond.
The hollow bones would bell and whinny
and the watchful stag and horse
would say they understood.
They left no books. We must unearth
their shards, and dust them off,
and guess. We must try to read
their useful, exquisite art,
know them as best we can.
Could they have taught us
in a way we could understand
how to fuse their great metaphor
into a truth? For them, there was
no make-believe: the caves
are not ‘alive’, they tell us,
with the sound of music.
The whole round Earth
is alive, they say, and answers us.
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Comments by other Members
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 nickb at 23:09 on 13 February 2015
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Hi James,
I like the opening of this, it sets out perfectly how far removed we are from the people who made the art, and how little there is to go on to build a picture of their life. This is made especially clear in
But almost, almost certainly
Of course the dilemma is that we will never know if we are right or wrong. I wasn't aware that they used the accoustic of the cave as well but it makes sense. What follows is conjurs up a clear image of how the space might have been used and the almost religeous impact of what they are about...
And the drums would beat, and the pulse
of the mountain would respond.
The hollow bones would bell and whinny
and the watchful stag and horse
would say they understood.
The "bell and whinny" of the bones is really good. However I did wonder about that particular stanza as the two sentences have a very similar structure.
I wondered about the word "useful" in describing their art as well. Useful to whom? Perhaps it is useful in the sense that it gives us the most vivid of what are very few glimpses in to their world.
The end of the poem I think hints at the immediacy of their life, perhaps compared to ours. The direct use of all aspects of the natural world in their need for survival, their closeness to the "whole round earth". Is this the point of their art, the great metaphor you refer to? Is it too big a leap to suggest that they could not afford time for"make-believe"? Intriguing questions.
I think the ending is really effective. It not only sums up their (possible) outlook on the world, but perhaps more importantly hints at the connections that we have lost.
Nick
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 V`yonne at 13:01 on 14 February 2015
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The opening 6 lines give us the impression of an ancient culture and a cathedral cave
Painted their vibrant stags
and bison where the sound was good.
so that sound and sight become one. That is lovely! I also liked the use of these drawings as an appeasement -- that the animals they drew would voice their 'understanding'.
I am not at all sure that
They left no books. We must unearth
their shards, and dust them off,
and guess. We must try to read
their useful, exquisite art,
know them as best we can.
adds anything to what you already said though.
Could they have taught us
in a way we could understand
how to fuse their great metaphor
into a truth?
I liked thinking about that and the difference in culture -- that to them the earth was alive -- but 'round'? Was it? To them? I don't know -- I am asking. And I am not keen on the Sound of Music reference. Unless you mean that our world is a second hand movie kind of world and if so I am not sure it comes over strongly enough. You do mention imagination. We do tend to live as if the world is a film set and we its characters....
The caves to them then were a place of the dead and to appease what was killed to offer something to the earth. I uderstood that.
As to a title: Maybe something about guessing at echoes?
Am I anywhere close?
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 James Graham at 20:41 on 14 February 2015
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Thanks, Nick.
I wasn't aware that they used the acoustic of the cave as well but it makes sense
- ‘almost certainly’ the poem says, but ‘perhaps’ might be closer. It’s based on an experiment by archaeologists in which they found that the best acoustic in the Lascaux caves, and another cave site, was in the areas where the paintings were. It seemed a reasonable conjecture that the cave people may have understood something about what we call acoustics.
I don’t mind the repeat construction in this stanza, as we’re talking about a ritual in which patterns of sound, rhythms, would be repeated over and over.
The ‘great metaphor’ may not be as clear in the poem as it should be. I suppose it’s something like this: in our time we talk about being ‘close to nature’ but that’s merely a figurative expression compared with the kind of closeness these people must have known. For most of us, nature is ‘out there’ – an Other. Not for them. I don’t know if that’s any clearer! I’m not sure the poem as it is really captures the idea.
And Oonah, thank you. You’re right about those lines ‘They left no books...’ They add nothing to the poem and can be omitted altogether. And the ‘round Earth’? I wonder too. We shouldn’t underestimate Paleolithic peoples: it may not be too fanciful to suppose that those of them who looked out to sea might have inferred that the world’s surface is curved and the whole thing might be a huge ball. Those who looked out over great flat plains or deserts might have thought the same. Of course, we know it’s a myth that before Columbus everybody thought the world was flat and if you sailed too far you would fall off. Certainly the Greeks knew it was round – Eratosthenes (3rd century BC) calculated its circumference. Columbus read Eratosthenes. Possibly the Egyptians and even the Sumerians knew it too.
A reference to ‘The Sound of Music’ is maybe not appropriate in anything that claims to be poetry! I think I meant to use it as an example of a trivialisation of our modern relationship with nature, in contrast to the cave people for whom nature really was more animate than inanimate. But I’m afraid it’s a bit muddled and the poem needs reworking.
The caves to them then were a place of the dead and to appease what was killed to offer something to the earth
I’ll hold that thought. Might find a way of making that more explicit in the poem.
A title: yes, something about making guesses or about echoes. Or both. I’ll hold that thought too.
James.
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V`yonne at 23:42 on 14 February 2015
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might have inferred that the world’s surface is curved
Yes. So why not the curved earth falling away?
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 stormbox at 18:24 on 15 February 2015
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This reminds me of the neolithic excavations recently discovered in Orkey at the Ness of Brodgar, with a huge temple complex predating the pyramids. Most of my friends still think temples only arrived with the Romans. I think it is a common mistake to mis-underestimate just how sophisticated ancient man was, just because there are no written records. I think your poem does a good job of conveying this, but could easily be expanded to mention how their very life would depend every day on being "connected" to nature.
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 Bazz at 20:51 on 15 February 2015
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Hi James, I certainly understood the meaning behind this, and felt you carried the idea strongly. I'm not sure about "they left no books" the paintings in the cave tell us as much as any book, and they used the wall as we would use a page.
But i love how you use "reading" the shards and the small totems left behind, where the smallest thing has now the grandest significance. The uncertainty of the beginning is very interesting, the tentative feel that nothing can be known for sure, or taken granted, but every idea must be teased, explored. Did they have "no make believe" surely they worshipped the sun, or feared it, for reasons that were valid or not.
I love what you're trying to explore here, it's the fascinating beginning of trying to see the world through different eyes in the past. Perhaps they would have thought the world was round, the sun appears to be, after all.
Perhaps the cave is alive with the sound of ritual?
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James Graham at 15:22 on 16 February 2015
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Thanks to all. These comments have been really helpful. Parts of the poem,especially the last few lines, need to be looked at again. Sooner or later, I'll post a revision. May do a bit more reading on this subject, which I'm very interested in anyway, to find out what part 'make-believe' played in their culture. No good saying they had 'no make-believe' if it isn't true.
James.
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 FelixBenson at 17:35 on 17 February 2015
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The amazing thing about cave painting is how modern they can seem, how sophisticated too, not just in terms of the artwork but in the whole artistic effect or of some kind of fundamental understanding about nature/environment. The acoustics are such an important factor – how those aural effects sound like something amplified, larger than life, atmospheric or even disturbing and hallucinatory – like the Whispering Gallery.
Also - there’s how light and darkness play into how the art is received and experienced.
It’s tempting to think that creating something like this serves as a way to deal with transitory or temporary life but this poem doesn’t try to force opinions…the tone is tentative, a gentle exploration – it says: we don’t know much, except what the artists left. The poem is keen not to assume too much or to underestimate knowledge either.
I think the first three stanzas are right – no changes required. And I know you’re editing the ending. The way I would imagine it (possibly!) working is if in stanza four you cut the first and last lines:
'they left no books'
and
'know them as best we can'.
Then for these lines to follow in stanza 5 – without the sound of music reference.
For them, there was
no make-believe:
the caves are not ‘alive’,
Then the great metaphor lines (which I love).
Could they have taught us
how to fuse their great metaphor
into a truth?
Then your ending as you have it now.
The whole round Earth
is alive, and answers us.
I am probably wrong there, at first I thought the lines about the great metaphor should be at the end…just because they are more mysterious and suggestive of what we don’t know….but on balance the final lines as you have them seem fundamentally right to me, but perhaps they might be more closely linked to the great metaphor?
Anyway, I like this poem very much – a poem of praise - and have been pondering what the title should be. Mind is good, as it is all about understanding. We don’t know what they know exactly, but we appreciate that they found and expressed things that speak to us now and connect us over time to some fundamental human interaction or communication. Anything that shows us that some things about men and women don’t fundamentally change is really powerful.
So, I was thinking that the title should be something that’s more about communication – these drawings set up a dialogue with the people who come after, whether that was their intention or no. Maybe the title should reflect that somehow – a sort of collective unconscious – is that the right phrase for this?
Your poem talks of these artists being in dialogue with the earth, and so maybe there is something in this.
Talking to the mountain, the voice in the cave, speaking to the future, a voice in the dark, talking back….none of these are good, but I wonder if something along these lines would work better?
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James Graham at 20:55 on 17 February 2015
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Thank you, Kirsty. Your suggestions for cutting some lines are just about spot on. And your pointers towards a title, the idea of communication across a vast time-span, are very helpful.
James.
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