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China Cup
Posted: 06 November 2009
Word Count: 87
Summary: Ghazal
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A china cup what a delicate thing placed in a cabinet when new
though it collects dust once respect is overdue.
But then, the smart-set turned up to invade our lives
clattering on about would be husbands and wives.
Like butterflies they flitted amongst moments on
a wet afternoon never caring that the sun had gone.
By the lillie pond, below an empty sky, you could feel
absorbent tablecloths tugging our vision.
At a steady pace tea was sipped softening the
ebb and flow of slower seas.
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Comments by other Members
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 Elsie at 15:49 on 07 November 2009
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Hello - there you are! I'll come back shortly, just writing mine at the moment.
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Elsie at 16:55 on 08 November 2009
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Hello Patrick
It's interesting how different people translate the form. To me, this is an accomplished poem, in the western style. By that I mean it has logic and you carry a theme through from Stanza to stanza: cups, tea, set, tablecloths; in the way we would normally try to make a poem.
On first reading it made me think of Ariel - feels like it's set in that time, it makes think of the ones about the bee society.
Whereas my understanding of the ghazal is that each self contained couplet does not relate to the other.
That's how the mind is allowed to make its own leaps into meaning
(or maybe I'm just reading in the links, which means it's a very successful ghazal!)
The radif, a repetition of word, phrase or rhyme, if you were going for the formal style, would appear as Aa, ba, ca, da, ea.
Metre in the form of beher simply means line length, not western metre.
Your poem hits all the right notes on the general the themes of a ghazal.
A typo: Should lillie be 'lily'? And a comma after cup?
I found the line "when respect is overdue" a bit forced to fit the rhyme.
Thanks for joining in the exercise. Hope to see you in the group.
(apologies for any iPhone weird typos!)
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 woodsville at 17:29 on 08 November 2009
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Hi Elsie
Ye I think you're right in saying its very logical and the underlying pattern is fairly easy to discern.
In the referral notes you gave us it talked of the objectivity that is significant in our western world view. As a result of education
blady...blah, I guess the objective world view is secure in our heads and to loose it will take a lot of effort.
I'll try another.
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 V`yonne at 20:59 on 08 November 2009
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I agree! It's like being brought up in a certain faith -
you never quite let go.
I tried with mine but I think I have the same tendency
to linear connections.
This is really difficult but I do like this whether it's a ghazal
or not.
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SarahT at 21:13 on 08 November 2009
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I've had a look but I think that I am going to have to do a bit of research into what a ghazal is and is supposed to do before I comment fully on this. I'll get back to you in a couple of days.
S
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 FelixBenson at 12:43 on 09 November 2009
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Hi Sarah - This is an exercise we are working on in the Poetry Seminar - if you check the threads in that group, there are a load of useful links...
Kirsty
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FelixBenson at 12:06 on 19 November 2009
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Hi Patrick
Sorry I didn't see this when commenting on the other ghazals in the poetry seminar group. this form does lend itself to impressionistic writing anyway, but yours is particularly so – especially
By the lillie pond, below an empty sky, you could feel
absorbent tablecloths tugging our vision.
Which seemed to suggest Monet to me. The lily pond reference probably set that off, but also the sense in which the pond and sky and cloth are running into each other…but possibly that is just me – might not be an association for anyone else.
The china cups, table cloths and references to husbands and wives made me think of Jane Austen too. Society.
Maybe I am seeing to many personal shapes in the ink spots and doing word association though!
I like this anyway. It has stayed with me.
(Although I would say that the run on line in the first couplet is quite hard to read- might be worth punctuating it.)
Kirsty
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SarahT at 07:54 on 21 November 2009
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Hi Patrick,
Overall, I loved the imagery of this poem, not least because it was slightly surreal. I think it was the tablecloths like butterflies, the idea of crockery with character - the 'smart set' - and the ebb and flow of seas in the last verse that made me think of Alice in Wonderland, both the novel and, in my mind's eye, the Disney cartoon. Reading Alice's comment helped me to understand this a little better:
| Whereas my understanding of the ghazal is that each self contained couplet does not relate to the other. |
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I thought that the couplets were separate but connected. I could see that it could be debateable on a couple of them whether they are entirely unrelated to each other. But I felt that there was a good story in the poem as a whole.
On the issue of the sound of the poem. I've had a quick look at the 'rules' for ghazals and I tried to keep up but I'm a bit slow about issues of metre. I have read many definitions of what metre is but I tend to forget them fairly quickly. I've come to the conclusion that this is because I find I write from sound rather than by rule. I suppose it is the literary equivalent of playing music without being able to read it. Anyway, within this limitations, I will comment on the sound of the poem, rather than its structure.
For me, it stuck out a little that the first line seemed to have too many syllables, while some of the later lines, such as the last, seemed a bit low in the count. Poems don't need regular lines but I think in this case it stuck out because the lines in between were so even in their syllable count. Perhaps you could make count of the lines taper more? It might add to the wistfulness which almost comes through at the end.
Thank you for the poem and I hope these comments are useful.
Sarah
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