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Terry And Denny - Chapter 1

by Richardrr 

Posted: 26 June 2008
Word Count: 1660


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Content Warning
This piece and/or subsequent comments may contain strong language.


Chapter 1 only here; but first, for context, a short synopsis of the full 32-chapter manuscript:

It’s the summer holidays and Terry and Denny are on a riotous adventure around Braeport, leaving havoc in their wake. From guitar-smashing to dropping a hamster into his granny’s knickers, Terry is the boss, with Denny at his heels. But when they take a trip to the big smoke, the tables turn’ With a raw hunger for discovery and an untamed imagination, thirteen-year-old Denny tells a story of the innocent bonds of childhood friendship.

Terry Shags Sheep (or Terry and Denny) is an 80,000 word literary fiction manuscript set in 1980s rural northern England. Here’s the first chapter:



CHAPTER ONE ’ The start of the book


On the twelfth of May 1984 at about four o’clock, I was up at Terry’s house, and he was punching my testicles.

It wasn’t just testicular torture for no reason. He was punching them because I wouldn’t agree with him. He said petrol engines are better than diesel ones, but I said diesel ones are better.

I was on the settee and I was fighting him off but I couldn’t fight properly because I was giggling too much.

He’s got big ears and stand-uppy hair, and he’d got his tie round his head like a bandana with the end flapping about. He was quite exciteable in his eyes.

Then he got the target and that was a shock that really hurt.

’Ow, that bloody hurt, you sheep bollock.’

’Don’t call me a sheep bollock you cow rectum.’

I got away and legged it round the settee. He chased me but I’m quite good at dodging and he couldn’t catch me. He ended up going upstairs to relieve his bowels.

When he came back down I’d got the Gazette and I was sat on the settee doing Spot The Dog. That’s a game where you have to guess where the sheepdog is because they’ve rubbed it out from the picture of sheep. You can win twenty-five quid if you get your cross in the right place. I’ve never won it. That’s because I don’t enter because it’s a quid and my mam won’t give me it. She says it’s a waste of money and someone else will just win it.

He came up behind me and was looking over my shoulder. He was breathing on my neck. There was even a bit of disgusting warm on my ear. I didn’t want to be impolite, even though he’s my mate, so I just moved away slowly. But then he was getting near again. I was creasing up my neck. I was hoping he didn’t goz when he talked.

’Right,’ said Terry. He was pointing. ’I reckon’ right’ if them yows are all headin’ that way’ he’s got to be somewhere down there ’ant he eh?’

He didn’t spit, but he wasn’t right either, because there was another sheep that wouldn’t’ve been where it was if the sheepdog had been where he said it was. I pointed it out, and he agreed with me for once.

Then we were just exploring the picture with our eyes. You could hear the clock ticking. Terry was leaning over the settee even more, but he wasn’t breathing on my neck now. His nose was really close to the paper. Then he grabbed it and walked off, which is typical. He started getting excited. He had a big grin on his face. He was jabbing the picture. ’Lookster. It’s down in that bottom corner there int it. Look. Picture’s all fuzzy, that’s where it’s rubbed out from int it, eh.’

I got up and had a gander. ’Nah, not sure about that. You can’t really tell like. It’s fuzzy all overt’ blank bits.’

’Bollocks.’ He threw the paper at me. ’It’s worth a shot. A quid’s nowt to you anyroad. You’re oul-fella’s rolling in it.’

’No, he’s tight as a nun’s fotze, he is.’ That’s not really true, even though it is amusing. My dad says he works at the quarry but with a white collar. But he usually wears a t-shirt. I’ve seen him wearing a blue shirt and he says it’s got a white collar on it, even though it was obvious it wasn’t. Anybody could see that.

Then Terry got an idea because I could see it in his eyes. He went, ’I tell you what laddio, right. We’ll go an’ nick a quid from Whely’s eh. How about that for an idea me young compadreo?’

’O ay, and how you gonna do that then? Blindfold him and tie him up and hypnotise him and pickpocket his till? You’ll never get a quid off him.’

He was coming near and his eyes were shining. He still had his bandana on. He had his front teeth on his bottom lip like he does sometimes and his head dead far forward like a chicken. He didn’t start clucking though. He was talking fairly quietly, ’No, it’s dead easy right, you just tell him you want a broom handle, and he goes through tot’ back to get yan an’ you can nick all his stuff.’ He got a dead big massive smile on his face. ’How about that eh?’

’Don’t talk daft, he’ll hear you opening his till. He’s not deaf you know.’

’O ay, well nick a knife or summat then. He’s got loads of ’em. I wouldn’t mind one o’ them swiss-army knives. They’re brill, they are.’

Swiss-army knives are dead good. But it was tight to nick one because he doesn’t make loads of money. He probably does alright in the tourist season, but that’s got to last him all year and he’s got lecky bills to pay and he’s got to eat as well. And he’s got a car so he needs petrol for that.

Terry knew I didn’t want to do it. He goes, ’Come on you chicken. Don’t be such a pussy.’He took his tie off his head and started whipping me. His eyes were shining.

’Get knotted.’ I was trying to get away from the whipping but he just carried on.

He kept just saying, ’Chicken. Chicken. Chicken.’

Then I went, ’Right, give us that tie you bondage bastard,’ and I grabbed the tie.

’Ey you bastard, you’ll brek me tie. Come here you b’’. He was trying to get it back. But I wouldn’t let go. I wrapped it round my hand and fell on the floor and I curled up in a ball. He fell over me and I was giggling, but I still wouldn’t let go. ’Err you gay fucker. Gedoff. Err, Terry’s trying to shag me. Terry wants to bugger me.’

He pinched me and it hurt. Then he said, ’Let go of me bastard tie or I’ll pull your dick off.’

I still wouldn’t let go so Terry grabbed my goolies. I was screaming like a newborn baby. And I was thrashing about like a fish. It was as painful as if someone was squeezing one of your internal organs. I didn’t even realise I still had the tie because I was so excruciating. My eyes were wet like I was crying but I wasn’t really.

Then he let go and I realised I still had the tie in my hand because I heard him say, ’Let go of my tie.’

It was a pretty serious voice even though he’d let go of my private parts. And when I let go I could see just red and white splodges on my hands and the insides of my fingers all white. They looked stretchy except they felt all seized up. I was moaning and the pain wasn’t as bad but it was still lots of pain. I curled up on my side on the ground. I had my hands on my groin and my face was on the carpet. It was really soft and my eyes were wet. Terry couldn’t see my face and he started talking. But then he saw it and he started apologising and saying sorry and it sounded like he meant it. He sat on the settee and didn’t say anything. So I sat up and I was leaning on my arm and wiping my eyes.

I went, ’You sheep shagger.’

Terry stood up and started doing humping with his hips. ’Ay, I’m a right sheep shagger I am. Not as much as people from Beedale though.’

That was funny. And also true. But it’s not funny if you really do it ’ you can go to prison. If you want to investigate if it really happens and you live in a town so you don’t have easy access to fields to go and watch, the best place to start looking is in the paper. One time I saw this and I cut it out because it was quite interesting:

A 20-year-old man at the centre of bestiality allegations at locations in the Greenton Fell area has been remanded without plea for psychiatric assessment. The man, granted interim name suppression, appeared before Judge Stephen Brast in Carlisle Crown Court yesterday, facing three charges of bestiality with sheep, and two charges of being in an enclosed yard in Bracken Street without reasonable excuse. The man has been granted bail with residence and curfew conditions and a requirement not to go onto any private farmland. He is next to appear on 12 November.
(Cumberland Post, Friday 23 October 1983)

That’s not Terry because he’s not twenty. But just because that’s not Terry it doesn’t mean Terry isn’t a sheep-shagger. He might be because there’s lots of opportunities. Like there was a farmer in Crudale that did sheep-shagging with a goat which is goat-shagging and he was caught by his wife and she divorced him. I know for definite they did get divorced because she moved to Braeport. And an extremely large amount of people reckon that Vinbo goes sheep-shagging before his milkround.






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Comments by other Members



NMott at 13:55 on 26 June 2008  Report this post
I liked the chapter - especially the sheep-shagging bit at the end, and liked the voices of your characters. I think it has the makings of a good story.
Since your characters are only 13, I' m not sure if it' ll fall into the Teen (aka Young Adult) genre. It depends on how much sex and swearing you' ve put in the rest of it.

As far as I can see it just need tweeking here and there, nothing major (- even a manuscript accepted for publication will be covered with corrections when it comes back from the editor):

He was quite exciteable in his eyes.


- ' in his eyes' is un-necessary detail probably best to it.

you cow rectum


I would keep it colloquial and say something like ' you cow' s arse'

He ended up going upstairs to relieve his bowels.


- Again, to keep the tone of the piece I' d just say something like 'he went for a pee'
(There's a chapter in Stephen King's 'On Writing' where he talks about 'calling a spade, a spade. And a crap, a crap' or words to that effect).
In that vein, I noticed that you've used the word 'testicles, bollocks, goolies and private parts' to mean the same thing. Probably best to keep to one word. Or, two at most: one for prose and one for dialogue.

I was hoping he didnt goz when he talked.


I've not heard of 'goz' before, which makes me think this would be better marketed as a Teen story, rather than Adult literary fiction. It's probable that the 'bowels' and 'rectum' are current Teen-speak, in which case ignore my comments above.

Then we were just exploring the picture with our eyes


As in the example above, you don't need to mention 'with our eyes', as that is taken as read.

Then Terry got an idea because I could see it in his eyes.
...
He was coming near and his eyes were shining.
...
His eyes were shining.


- you have a tendancy to mention 'eyes' quite a lot. Might be worth keeping an eye on that and cull a few of them.

It was as painful as if someone was squeezing one of your internal organs.


Factually incorrect. I think having your goolies squeezed is about as painful as it can get.


My eyes were wet like I was crying but I wasnt really.


Sounds a bit clunky, and you repeat the description further along: It was really soft and my eyes were wet..
Maybe replace them with something like, 'he squeezed so hard that tears came to my eyes...'


If you want to investigate if it really happens and you live in a town so you dont have easy access to fields to go and watch, the best place to start looking is in the paper. One time I saw this and I cut it out because it was quite interesting


I'm not sure you need all this - you're 'talking to camera' here (having the character talk to the reader, rather than the reader simply having access to his thoughts).
Maybe just say, 'I read about it in the local paper...'


All the best with it.

NaomiM





<Added>

oops, typo: probably best to delete it.


Cornelia at 20:00 on 26 June 2008  Report this post
Unlike Naomi, I didn' t like these horrible boys at all, and I did think all the synonyms were strange - like goz became spit . It' s best not to translate, I think, even if you are using the . However, it was so horrible there was a strange fascination about it. I wish I hadn' t read the summary at the top because I might have hoped things got better. Probably something to do with being a granny myself

I agree with Naomi that it would appeal to lads of about this age who like to think they are bad, but adults aren' t going to stick with it. I don' t know enough about how much of this kind f language you can have in teen books. I suppose I could got to Waterstones and ask which is their nearest-the-knuckle teen read.

I wonder what your influences are?

I couldn' t see how you could get away with the first part of the title, even for adults - unless it were, say, a humorous book about the horrors of rural life in Wales or Australia. I just had a look on Google and sheep shagging is mainly in cartoons and on YouTube.

I agree you have to decide on which register to use when it comes to vocab. It' s fair that the voice of the narrator would be more formal, but he says both testicles and goolies.

On second thoughts, having read the summary agan, yes, I would stick with it to see how they get on in South London.

thirteen-year-old Denny tells a story of the innocent bonds of childhood friendship.


I half expected them to be gay with all the handling of one another' s parts and the proximity.

It' s a startling beginning and I am curious to see what happens next.

Sheila




Richardrr at 20:22 on 26 June 2008  Report this post
Many thanks for your comments - it' s useful food for thought for me, and both sets of comments make me feel I could do with more comments to see if people are saying the same things or something different.

For any other people critiquing this, I' m interested in any comments on opening of the chapter, language throughout, dialogue, pace, your engagement on reading it, and what readership people feel it might appeal to.

As well, of course, as any other impressions.

Again, thanks, Richard

NMott at 21:18 on 26 June 2008  Report this post
Well it seems that both Cornelia and I agree that there should be more consistency regarding some of the nomenclature (goolies, testicles, etc), and it would appeal to the Teen market. Hopefully you will get more comments to give you a concensus on the rest of it.

There is also Harper Collin' s new website Authonomy, if you would like to upload a large chunk of the ms, although the feedback will be far less detailed.
Also, YouWriteOn - again, you can upload the whole ms.


- NaomiM

caro55 at 22:02 on 26 June 2008  Report this post
Hi Richard and welcome to WW

I thought this was fab. Maybe it' s coz I grew up in the north west in the 80s, but I found this really funny and engaging. I love the characters and the ' voice' . Contrary to the other commenters, I didn' t have an issue with the varying nomenclature for ' goolies' (although ' private parts' was maybe a bit too polite). I got the impression these lads were delighting in all the different words they knew, and trying to use them at every available opportunity.

As for:
Dont call me a sheep bollock you cow rectum.'

That made me laugh because I remember at that age encountering ' rectum' in the dictionary and thinking it was hilarious, so I could well imagine your characters using this word rather than the more generic (and obvious) 'arse'. To be nitpicky, I'd put a comma after 'bollock.'

If I have a criticism it's that I felt the voice occasionally slipped. Naomi has already highlighted:
He ended up going upstairs to relieve his bowels.

This sounds rather coy for someone who has just been talking about bollocks and rectums. Similarly:

I didn't want to be impolite

'Impolite' sounded, paradoxically, too polite!

One time I saw this and I cut it out because it was quite interesting:

'Quite interesting' sounded a bit posh and vague somehow. Maybe he cut it out because he thought it was funny?

I really enjoyed reading this - I didn't see it as YA just because the characters are young. I would definitely want to read on.

Caro




Account Closed at 22:48 on 26 June 2008  Report this post
Just had a very quick read of this - so won' t give any detailed comments, but I really liked this a lot. Loved the characters their voices, the way they were thinking ,etc all seemed very typical teenage boy. I thought the voice and language of the MC were spot on.

As Caro says, very funny and engaging, with loads of energy.

Agree with C about
Dont call me a sheep bollock you cow rectum.'
- don' t change that, it' s great.

Disagree with Naomi about
My eyes were wet like I was crying but I wasnt really.
- that' s not clunky at all, that' s a 13 yr old voice (sorry, N!!)

Here
If you want to investigate if it really happens and you live in a town so you dont have easy access to fields to go and watch, the best place to start looking is in the paper. One time I saw this and I cut it out because it was quite interesting
- again, i liked this because of the voice.

I think ' Terry Shags Sheep' would make a great title, btw,

Great stuff,
p

NMott at 09:12 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
I didn' t see it as YA just because the characters are young


It wasn' t just because of the characters' age, Caro, but that, plus the whole voice and content of the chapter.

It' s a shame you can only upload the once, Richard, because there' s also YA/Teen Group where you could get some additional comment.


- NaomiM

<Added>

It reminds me quite a lot of Harry Enfield's characters: Kevin And Perry; albeit slightly younger versions of the pair.

Cornelia at 10:08 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
Funny you should say that, Naomi, because I was thinking more of The Young Ones, although they are much older, but you know the sort of thing - going all out to be as rude as they can with the language. Both these examples, though, are pastiches and to me that' s how it comes across - somewhat forced.Interesting that comments from younger members think it authentic, though. The nearest thing I can imagine in literary terms is Roddy Doyle, but nothing like so extreme, really. One thing' s for sure, it' s a long way from ' Harry Potter ' .

I had the accent placed first as Birmingham and then the East Riding of Yorkshire, definitely rural because of all the animals, but the hero implies he lives in a town. I' m a native of Lancashire myself but didn' t recognise any of the language features as NW.

Yes, I think the sheep shagging in the title would attract attention. I' m a bit doubt whether a publisher would agree it, though. They like something more subtle, but it' s just my impression. George Melly wrote ' Rum, Bum and Concertina' about his life in the navy, which was considered a bit daring for a title at the time.

I wonder what's the most daring title for a novel we have now? Roddy Doyle's books which this most reminds me of are called things like 'Snapper' and 'The Van'.

My 15 year old grandson is coming round tomorrow so I could ask him what he thinks, I suppose, althugh it may be too young (age of boys) for him. He reads books but fancies himself as a bit of a lad and goes to a local all-boyd comp, so maybe this sort of conversation takes place among his pals.

It would be helpful to know which age-group it's aimed at.

Sheila



Account Closed at 10:20 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
I have to say, i have no idea whether a publisher would like the title (TSS) - but it would definitely make me pick the book up from the shelf.

Totally disagree with Sheila about it sounding forced!! I hope you don' t mind us arguing about your work, Richard, but i think it' s often the sign of quality work when that happens - and surely better to evoke a love/hate reaction rather than bland, mild approval (??)

Also, I' m not young (but thank you for thinking that, Sheila - unless you didn' t mean me!!). In fact, i' m really pretty ancient - but incredibly immature.

pxx

caro55 at 10:51 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
Yes, I thought of Roddy Doyle too, Sheila.

It would definitely be interesting to know what market this is aimed at - as Richard has described it as literary I assumed it was for adults rather than teens. If it' s for teens, however, would the strong language put a publisher off? I don' t know anything about the YA market so maybe it' s OK to be as rude as you like - but I' d have thought a YA publisher might prefer it toned down.

There is also the issue that this is not about today' s teens - it' s set in the 80s and is presumably intended to appeal to the generation who grew up then and can remember what it was like to be a kid at that time. Maybe modern teens would find it dated, whereas people of Richard' s age and mine would look at it nostalgically.

The ' Terry Shags Sheep' title is great - I imagine it scrawled on the cover like graffiti!

Cornelia at 11:39 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
I' m very ignorant, too, about YA novels. I must ask my grandson what he' s reading, although he mainly seems to read tomes full of sports statistics - he says he' s going to be a TV commentator. I think he mentioned a series about a boy detective which sounds quite tame.

I think YA publishers and writers have to be more morally- minded and have a lot less sex and swearing than writers for adults. There was that American author who used to write for girls and used to be very popular because she dealt with ' daring' topics like dating and spots. In a way YA books are an extension of children' s books - the heroes and heroines learn from experience or act nobly. They aren' t so many miles in this regard from Enid Blyton' s ' Famous Five' . The protagonists may be working class, but the authors often aren't.

Youre oul-fellas rolling in it.


sounds as if these boys aren't exactly deprived, but we don't quite know what this means. A good pointer, though, is the fact that one of them has a tie on, suggesting the parents have conventional values.

A writer called Penny Woolcock writes about young people on a Leeds council estate - more like the TV series 'Shameless' but the language isn't so bad.

It must be rural North Yorkshire because urban boys would call sheep sheep, not 'yows' and there's mention of a local quarry. It's kind of James Herriott country, perhaps.

The term 'oul-fella' sounds Irish to me - that's another reason I thought Roddy Doyle.

The actual antics sound quite tame compared witht the semi-criminal activities of a another work it reminds me of - called 'The Estate Gang', again older youths sex-and-bad-language obsessed youths that was posted here on WW. The writer, interesting enough, wanted to call his book 'Council Estate Scum', but again it was doubtful whether it would be acceptable to publishers.

It would be useful to know of similar published works to compare.

Sheila

Gillian75 at 12:36 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
Hi Richard
I thought this was really funny. You have a great ' voice' in the piece and I did find it quite original, although that' s maybe because it' s a long time since I read anything like this.
I' m not sure about the sheep-shagging title, even for an adult book, I think it' s quite close to the edge.
I like the punchy opener (excuse the pun) - it really grabs the attention and makes me want to read on. It' s an engaging piece - kind of like Russel Brand in the North!
You' ve got just about the right balance between narrative and dialogue which is good, because some writers tend to go overboard on either one or the other.

I didn' t know what a goz was!
' oul-fella' is definitely Irish. And in the same sentence 'youre' should be 'your.'
I did have to read the dialogue slowly but that's a colloquial/area issue.

Definitely funny but I'm wondering if it's too crude!?



Richardrr at 13:31 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
Thanks for the comments. I’m still digesting them, and thinking…

Poppy – I’m quite happy for people to argue over it – I’m very interested to hear people’s arguments.

It’s really interesting to read about people’s thoughts on whether it might be more suitable for YA or adults. I always had in mind people who grew up in the 80s, and a sense of nostalgia, though I was always quite happy to reconsider that. On balance I’m leaning towards sticking with that as far as researching prospective agents: I’m not sure it would suit kids now – the crudity is one reason - and how publishers may react to that, but also the experiences of the characters in this book are very different to today’s kids’ experiences. Of course, it would be even better if it might appeal to both. (And even worse if neither!)

The oul-fella thing: In the area where the book is set, when I was growing up, people used the term “oul fella” others said “oul man”. The more farmery and yocal people would say oul-fella and I think the term better fits the characters from my experience, though "oul-man" or "ol' man" would be ok for them too, and that might avoid the confusion-type-thing.

I could also consider a change in spelling and lose the hyphen: ol’ fella – does that sound less Irish than the more Irish ‘aul-fella’?

The word ‘goz’ was very common around there.

The kids aren’t deprived economically, though the tie is a school tie – part of the school uniform.



<Added>

Again, thanks, tis all useful stuff for me.

Richardrr at 13:42 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
Ps, throughout the manuscript I' ve used ol' lass, and ol' folks as well as ol' fella - both of which are used in the area the novel is set but neither of which are really used in Ireland so perhaps that might help for a feeling of consistency in accent?

caro55 at 19:24 on 27 June 2008  Report this post
' Ol' fella' sounds a good compromise to me. I didn' t think of ' oul-fella' as being particularly Irish because on Merseyside we said something similar - ' arl feller' (not sure of the spelling but that' s what it sounded like.)

One thing I meant to add before was that I really like the rural setting - this style of book more often comes from urban housing estates and it' s refreshing to see something that acknowledges the experience of rural kids.

I hope you'll stick around on WriteWords and upload some more.

Caro

smudger at 15:27 on 28 June 2008  Report this post
Hi Richard,

I don' t see this as appealing exclusively to teenagers. I grew up in the North West (although not in the 1980s) and for me this was a funny, nostalgic trip back to some of the expressions I remember using as a kid (or should that be ' young person' ?).

The chapter opens well, with a great hook and the voice remains more or less consistent throughout, with a few minor slips.

Here are my niggles:

to relieve his bowels.
I agree this doesnt ring true.

Dont be such a pussy.
I dont think he would have said pussy, it sounds too contemporary maybe a wuss or a puff.

Err you gay fucker
Gay was only just coming into use. More likely hed say queer fucker.

I was so excruciating
Shouldn' t this be it was so excruciating or I was so excruciated. Also, it seems to slip into an older voice.

I thought this was somewhere in Roddy Doyle territory. You tell a tale through a young voice, but it has adult resonances.

I would avoid calling it ' literary fiction' . People generally expect something different under that kite mark.

The passage on sheep shagging at the end was excellent and very funny. This is just the kind of weird stuff that fascinates the average 13 year-old boy. It' s well observed.

I' m definitely looking forward to the next post. I see a lot of comic potential when this pair visit London.

Regards
Tony


Richardrr at 16:03 on 28 June 2008  Report this post
Thanks Tony,

Seems to be some recurring stuff among people who like it - that is positive comments on the voice with some niggles for me to consider. Roddy Doyle' s name keeps coming up too.

Recurring stuff also among people who don' t like it.

I spent some time deciding whether to call it literary fiction or not - I was going to call it "character-driven" just to avoid the term "literary" - but since that' s not a genre label, I plumped for literary.

It' s actually not the real big smoke they go to - not even Manchester - it' s a big(ish) town, which to them is a metropolis.

Cheers again, Richard

Richardrr at 16:11 on 28 June 2008  Report this post
By the way, the niggles in the voice are really interesting for me to hear - I' m holding back on making changes to them at the moment, as I intended the character to take pleasure in using more adulty phrases - eg "relieve his bowels", but sometimes to get it wrong - eg "I was so excruciating"

I don' t know if it works - I think if it does, it will probably takes a handful of chapters to get used to - though of course there is the consideration that I don' t want to lose readers before they' ve got far enough to get into it.

For me to think about anyway...

NMott at 18:48 on 28 June 2008  Report this post
but sometimes to get it wrong - eg "I was so excruciating"


Examples like this would probably work in dialogue, there the other character can make fun at him for getting it wrong. But if you use it in his thoughts, then, as with the example of the interesting article' , you/the character are talking directly to the reader and it' s very possible they won' t ' get it' since characters, like real people, rarely make such mistakes in their thoughts.

As for genre, it would come under General Fiction, or Adult Fiction, rather than Literary Fiction, which, as smudger says, is a whole other ball game.


- NaomiM

Richardrr at 19:27 on 28 June 2008  Report this post
Thanks Naomi - the niggles are definitely something for me to consider.

To clarify, though I don' t know if this makes any real difference:

When I say "sometimes he gets it wrong", I don' t mean a slip of the tongue, I mean he' s attempting to use language that' s beyond his knowledge - like someone showing off using big words but not really understanding the words fully - they' re bound to make mistakes in how they use those words.

I didn' t realise I could call it general fiction - I' ve been googleing for a definition of general fiction. I found one saying that it can be hard-to-define fiction, and another saying it' s believeable/realistic fiction and based in the time it was written.

Anyone have any other understandings of the term.

I' d like to ensure I' m using the best term I can, for my query letter.

NMott at 22:33 on 28 June 2008  Report this post
There are the obvious genres (Sci-Fi Childrens Teen/YA Womens Historial Crime Horror Fantasy etc), and the occassional sub-genres (Space Opera Chick-lit etc), the rest (the majority) will be bundled under the general heading of Fiction.
Literary Fiction is usually reserved for those novelists who have won awards such as the Man Booker. Before that their work was also placed in genre fiction or catch-all Fiction.

When you are at the stage of submitting to Agents, first check if your work fits their list (list of authors they currently represent), as that will show their preferences. It is important to search out those authors who write similar novels to yours, and see who their agents are. These will be your targeted submissions, and will probably number no more than a handful. For the rest of your submissions it will be potluck to any Agent or Agency accepting Adult Fiction. However, because of the content of your novel, you also have the choice of submitting to Agents who handle older Childrens, and Teen/YA, fiction.


- NaomiM

<Added>

PS. Lad-Lit (an offshoot of Chick-lit) is "character-driven" fiction, so it would be worth checking out authors who are listed under this genre, eg, Roddy Doyle, David Baddiel, Nick Hornby, John King, William Sutcliffe, etc.

<Added>

oops, it lost all my semi-colons. That should be: Sci-Fi, Childrens, Teen/YA, Womens, Historial, Crime, Horror, Fantasy, etc), and the occassional sub-genres (Space Opera, Chick-lit, etc),

Cornelia at 10:44 on 29 June 2008  Report this post
Naomi, you have an impressive knowledge of YA literature. I

My grandson, aged 14,says he' s been reading the Alex Ryder books by Anthony Horowitz, about a boy detective. There' s no bad language, he says. At school he says he' s reading Walkabout and I know they are doing Shakespeare.(He was happy with a set of animated tales on DVD I lent him). He denies any sex or bad language in the books ' except what Shakespeare used' . He' s monosyllabic as usual, reading sports webpages. His sister, aged twelve, is watching a Simpsons DVD on her laptop. She' s slightly autistic, though, and doesn' t read much.

Sheila



NMott at 23:13 on 29 June 2008  Report this post
Lad-lit is more for twenty-somethings (and 30-somethings who like Top Gear and Skinner & Baddiel ).



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