Over
Posted: 11 February 2007
Word Count: 49
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I can't tell the difference
in the dark,
between me and her,
she engulfs me all night.
And the shadows
give my mind toys
to play with.
Sometimes dreams
are just dreams,
not intended
to make the morning shower.
But the ones
with her
are so hard to forget.
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Comments by other Members
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 DJC at 22:33 on 11 February 2007
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Hi Stephen,
A very ambitious poem, and one which really communicates the feeling one has at night, with the other person there in the darkness beside you. I'd probably get rid of the first comma, as it doesn't quite scan. I always say that if you remove the line breaks it should make sense
Shadows, give the mind toys to play with,
Perhaps also a semi colon here rather than a comma?
with the dark
engulfing;
I can't tell the difference
between me and you.
Just gives it that bit more of a pause, which I think it needs. I like the word 'filing' but keep reading it as 'filling'!
Sometimes dreams are just dreams,
filing memories randomly,
I really like the move to the mundane image of the shower at the end - this works really well.
not intended to
make the morning shower -
The end is slightly cliche - I want something more concrete to be left with. Not sure what - maybe an image of the woman.
Hope any of this is useful!
Darren
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Account Closed at 19:03 on 12 February 2007
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Shadows,
give the mind toys to play with,
with the dark
engulfing,
I can't tell the difference
between me and you.
Sometimes dreams are just dreams,
filing memories randomly,
not intended to
make the morning shower -
But the ones about you
are so hard to forget. |
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Hi Stephen,
I like the sentiment and atmosphere this attempts to conjure up. It does need some tweaking though, and the final line probably wants strengthening.
When reading aloud I found some of the lines to be a bit tricky. The ones causing the most trouble are lines two and three ending and then beginning with 'with'. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I experimented with swapping some of the lines around, just to see how things would flow:
I can't tell the difference
between you and me
with the dark engulfing
shadows give the mind toys to play with
Sometimes dreams are just dreams
filing memories
randomly
not intended to
make the morning shower -
But the ones about you
are so hard to forget
These are just my thoughts, if they're not of use, feel free not to take them onboard. When the first line began with 'shadows' I found it quite abstract and in the air. It's not until the fifth line that I know I'm in the narrators head, hearing his thoughts and looking through his eyes. By starting with the fifth line you begin with the narrator's voice. This helps direct the scene and shows the reader where they should be looking.
Hope this helps
Davina
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 James Graham at 16:00 on 13 February 2007
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I think Darren's right about the last two lines. But since the title is 'Over' - the whole poem seems to be about a finished relationship rather than an ongoing one - the idea of 'hard to forget' should stay. I think the last line would be better without 'so', but doesn't need to be changed other than that. However the second last line could do with being more concrete. You would have to avoid the usual romantic items - your lips/ eyes/ smile are hard to forget - but the poem does need something personalised enough for the reader to think, 'Mmm, I can see how that would be hard to forget'. 'But your small hands/ are hard to forget'...that's not up to much, but I hope you'll see what I mean.
I like Davina's rearrangement of some of the lines. 'I can't tell the difference/ between you and me' is an opener that says to the reader, 'I bet you can't put this poem down; you have to finish it.' We wonder how it can be that someone can't tell the difference between himself and another person, yet we feel there must be a sense in which this is true - and so we read on. This opening would be more effective in drawing readers into the poem.
James.
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hailfabio at 16:28 on 13 February 2007
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Thanks very much for all comments - very useful and interesting.
I can see what you are getting at with the last 2 lines, but perhaps this is my problem - What I think is cliche isn't cliche and vice versa but its opinions i guess and I accept the arguement that there needs to be something more concrete and visual in there for the reader to connect with. But the last line makes to poem, as it is about getting over something.
I do like Davina's tampering and I'm going to do some tampering now - please let me know what you think.
Cheers
Stephen
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Account Closed at 16:42 on 13 February 2007
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Oooh just read this all as I was coming back with another, er tampering *g* for the ending. Stephen, what do you think to turning the final line in on itself? It would then read something like this:
But the ones about you
I wish to forget
the idea is the memories are so painfully strong that the narrator when feeling the loss of love, wants to shut it out (but can't.)
Davina
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billygotee at 18:16 on 14 February 2007
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Fabioooo. . .
This has got style, I definitely follow that last few lines-
Sometimes dreams are just dreams. . .not intended to make the morning shower.
Wake up alone anytime these days? Keep writing. . .
Crits (after all, without the crits all we do is pat each other on the back):
-"I can't tell the difference/between me and you"
So it's before sunrise, you see your legs poking under the blanket and think they're hers without realizing it? If so this is a more than subtle (maybe even roundabout) way of saying it -- if not, you lost me.
-"But the ones about you/are so hard to forget"
I like the sentiment here but not the execution.
Peace,
Brandon
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hailfabio at 19:51 on 14 February 2007
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Ah!
Managed to update it this time. Let me know what you think.
Cheers
Stephen
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Account Closed at 14:01 on 15 February 2007
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Stephen,
I think this is a different poem now. To be honest, I'm not keen on workshopping this way *sigh*
Others will disagree, but I think the extra words weaken and not strengthen the work. But that's my opinion and you don't have to listen.
Onwards!
Davina
<Added>
- sorry, that sounded pissy. I didn't mean it to be.
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Account Closed at 14:19 on 15 February 2007
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Brandon,
I like your edit of the original:
Sometimes dreams are just dreams / not intended to make the morning shower.
It's crisp. The image becomes immediate and engaging. There's more ache.
Davina
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Account Closed at 17:33 on 16 February 2007
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James and Group, I'd like to ask a question. And Stephen sorry for the hijacking ;)
In first version of 'Over' we had the lines:
I can't tell the difference / between me and you.
They're right grammatically, I think. I then suggested changing the stanza's and some of the lines around. So we had:
I can't tell the difference / between you and me
It's been bugging me ever since because shouldn't it be: you and I? There are times where you and me is acceptable and correct. Such as:
I'll lend you my Nintendo Wii if you lend me your car
I'm not sure though about this in the poem. Perhaps it is okay because of the colloquial voice? I don't know, I'm going round in circles over this.
What do you think it should be?
Cheers,
Davina
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 joanie at 19:01 on 16 February 2007
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Hi Davina. I have a bit of a thing about this. You use I as the subject of the verb and me as the object. Therefore it's I love him but He loves me.
It doesn't make any difference if there's anyone else involved, so you would still say She saw John and me yesterday. However, if it's the subject, as in John and I went to town, you use I.
In this particular case it's a bit different. The me comes after a prepostion, for example before, on, under, near etc. You wouldn't think of saying He sent it to I so you don't say He sent it to John and I.
I hope that helps.
Joan
<Added>
So between you and me is definitely correct; between you and I would be wrong.
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hailfabio at 12:14 on 22 February 2007
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Another edit on this. Sorry I have a habbit of developing poems on here.
Agree that the detail made it weaker.
Thanks
Stephen
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