Sally
Posted: 29 March 2006
Word Count: 103
Summary: Really nasty 1st draft of a piece to introduce myself with! I don't normally use rhythm like this. Not sure if it works. Also struggling with line breaks.
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Content Warning
This piece and/or subsequent comments may contain strong language.
Sally
hit her children.
Took a bottle to the youngest
which would teach her to be like
that man, to shut her fucking trap.
Sally woke at noon.
Left the gas on in the kitchen
left the girls in wet pyjamas.
Went down the social. Packed.
The eldest up to Liverpool.
The youngest stayed in London.
Up north, Sally visited, three Sundays, maybe, max.
I’ve got new kids now, she giggled, Easier than you two.
I’m in love, engaged, three-bedrooms,
it’s fantastic. Near the shops.
No visits down in London.
The youngest growing thin
got clever with a razor.
Opened up her skin.
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Comments by other Members
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 NinaLara at 13:04 on 29 March 2006
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This is a very brave subject to tackle. This is raw ... and rather compelling because of it. I think it is the third verse that needs the attention - I think maybe there is too much detail about their lives. Maybe you need no focus on the children or the Mother at this point ... all three makes it a bit too vague.
The first verse really grabs you by the throat - the second is almost as effective ... perhaps if you broke it after the first three lines, you could use the last line of the verse to start the third. The last two lines are very strong. A lot of potential here for a really excellent piece of work.
Welcome to the group! Good to have you.
Nina
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Swoo at 14:53 on 29 March 2006
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Thanks very much, Nina - these are really interesting and useful comments. Thanks for taking the time.
In the middle section I wanted to try and show the manifestation of Sally's abandonment, and how her behaviour triggered the youngest child's self-harming. I wanted to show how shallow and fickle her values/aspirations are. I take your point about it being too vague though - I'll have a rethink.
It started to have rhythm and rhyme rather accidentally, but then I kept with it, feeling that the nursery rhyme-type bounce would make it all the more pathetic and horrible.
A true 'story' by the way. It's either writing a poem or going and doing something illegal to this person!
thanks again - and it's good to be here!
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 joanie at 22:12 on 29 March 2006
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Hi Swoo. I think this is very powerful - the simple form and vocabulary add to the impact.
I would suggest that you could drop the full stop at the end of verse 2 so that it reads Left the gas on in the kitchen
left the girls in wet pyjamas,
went down the social. Packed
the eldest up to Liverpool. |
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I'm not sure about the longer lines in the middle. I wonder if you could get more effect by keeping them short. I don't know!!
The last three lines are chilling.
Very good.
joanie
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steve_laycock at 08:58 on 30 March 2006
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Hi Sally,
Wow,really powerful. The nursery rhyme rhythm does make it darker, in a very Emminem way (re: '97 Bonny and Clyde or Mockingbird) Though i think there's a similar problem with one I face. I love strong rhythm, and how you present the poem really affects how people read it and how they pick up on the rhythm. The line:
"Up north, Sally visited, three Sundays, maybe, max."
was a little awkward at first. Now I know how it goes, i get the rhythm. But by having to read it twice to pick up on it, i lost the first time imact. It's tough, maybe use line breaks instead of comma's. Short lines, but that's ok. I don't think change the lines, neccessarily, cause i bet you could perform it well, but maybe try leaving it cold fora while and then read it how you see it.
Also, the line:
"I've got new kids now, she giggled, Easier than you two."
might read better
"I've got new kids, she giggled, easier than you."
And because the first stanza starts with the title, Sally, the second could use 'She' instead, to avoid too much repetition.
That being said, the final stanza's absolutely fantastic - in a kind of I'm not saying it's fantastic way. Really powerfully written. Upbeat rhythm hides desperate a meaning that closes the poem off suddenly and effectively, like a tragedy we saw but let happen.
By the way, there's nothing wrong with doing something illigal to her -just don't get caught, eh?!?
thanks
steve
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Account Closed at 13:27 on 30 March 2006
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Continuing the suggestions for pruning verse 3:
You could drop "engaged" & "it's fantastic": you paint a sufficient picture with "in love" & the info on the house. And "The eldest" & first reference to "The youngest" can both drop "The".
"Three Sundays, maybe max": drop "maybe"?
Another Steve
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Swoo at 13:48 on 31 March 2006
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Thanks very much everyone for your comments, I really do appreciate you taking the time. I take your points, Joanie and both Steves - and am really grateful for them - am re-working the middle section and experimenting with the line breaks.
I shall also leave it for a week or so and come back to it with fresher eyes - it's a good tactic I think.
Next one will be a lovey dovey piece of slush - just to keep a balance, you understand!
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 James Graham at 18:35 on 31 March 2006
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Late to this one, especially as I see you're already revising. I agree with Joanie's suggested revision, and think Steve L's idea for breaking up some of the poem into shorter lines would be worth a try. But I won't complicate your revision by throwing in any new suggestions.
Whenever I come across a story like this, especially when it's presented so starkly, it leaves me asking very basic questions. There are plenty of Sallys - but what should our attitude be to them? To what extent can we blame them for their behaviour and the way they mess up their children's lives? Most Sallys are the way they are partly because their own parents were abusive or feckless; is there any solution to this generation problem, or will it never change? Is society to blame - and what do we mean when we say that?
The poem certainly makes us think along these lines. What are your thoughts on this? (Of course, it's quite in order for a poet to say, 'I wrote the poem - now you do the thinking!')
James.
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NinaLara at 19:45 on 31 March 2006
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Hi Swoo and James,
I had to stick my nose into this discussion because I've just been doing a bit of writing/thinking about this very thing! I worked with people with issues of substance misuse and for a number of years ... very often they had stories similar to Sally's or Sally's daughters. Before I had children of my own I always understood things from their point of view ... always knew that there was a very deep and painful story behind any abuse issue. (I've never met anyone who is an addict or alcoholic just because they like drugs or drink - the reasons are always complex.)
However, when my son was one, I took him to a convention for people in recovery. Quite suddenly, I started to see this world from the child's point of view. I saw parents scream and sware at their children and when I went to the creche found the workers distressed because young children had been left without nappies and food for the day. My son - who was always very outgoing as toddler and liked to smile and 'chat' to everyone - looked at one woman who was so paranoid she shouted 'what's your problem?; what you looking at?; what's wrong with that kid?' I understood (to some extent) what was going on in her head ... but I also found the limit of my tolerance that day. I decided it was far better for my children to keep them away from chaotic environments ... although I felt uncomfortable abou the judgement I was making.
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Swoo at 14:57 on 09 April 2006
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hi again, and thanks again for your comments. It's a really difficult subject, I know, and knowing 'Sally's' background, the story is really one of a cycle of dysfunction. I think my rage, if I can call it that, is from a undoubtedly naive belief that if you have children, you sort yourself out, by any means necessary. And I'm very aware this is unrealistic and judgemental, and comes from a very personal and child-free perspective.
However - I also wanted to explore the taboo - perhaps - of women abusers. There are double standards even in this contentious area - I'm not saying that we expect it more of/from men (well perhaps I am) but there does seem to be a particular vilification reserved for mothers who do not, or cannot, do the 'motherly' thing.
I know that there's no sympathy for Sally coming through in this poem, but that's a personal thing. On a professional level, I have worked with and trained many women ex-offenders/mental health sufferers, and with that particular 'hat' on, I see things completely differently.
Anyway!
Thanks all.
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James Graham at 18:06 on 10 April 2006
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I'm still thinking about the issues around your poem. I think it's natural to be angry with people like Sally, and to want to tell them to make use of the help that's available, and get their act together. There are some that do succeed in sorting out their lives. At the same time there's the kind of perspective that says, sure, these people are dysfunctional - but a society that doesn't deal adequately with deprived and excluded groups, and that condones grotesque disparities between rich and poor, is itself dysfunctional. There's an important role for social workers and others in taking on the Sallys as individuals, and trying to help them get a grip of things; but while that's going on we should be addressing the politics too - nobody puts it better than the American political theorist Ted Honderich, who says simply that the first concern of government should be to 'get people out of bad lives'.
James.
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