 James Graham at 11:52 on 19 March 2006
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You can't capture the sea in your hands, but you've captured something in this poem - an impulse, one of those momentary feelings that ought to be preserved. And you've shaped this passing thought so well, each step in its development fitting neatly into a parcel of four lines. The third of these is more concise, just right to express the sobering realisation that follows the imaginative flight.
I like the domestic images in the first verse. They're adventurous, and might disappoint any reader who expects a poem about the sea to be written in 'noble' language. But they create just the right effect for your poem - playfully ignoring the 'majesty' of the sea and reducing it to something ordinary whose qualities can be felt just by touching it or picking it up. Following these images, the second verse works wonderfully - it's as if the sea, once imaginatively 'captured', becomes its true self.
I wonder a little about ‘majesty’, whether it does full justice to the sea’s ‘power to wreck ships’. Majesty suggests power, but more a kind of established, ceremonial power rather than wild force and energy. Maybe a word to reconsider?
James.
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 joanie at 16:36 on 19 March 2006
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Thanks, James! I always appreciate your comments so much. I am trying 'mighty force', having considered 'might' and 'force' but not really liking either.
Many thanks!
joanie
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 Tina at 16:40 on 19 March 2006
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Hi Joanie
This is a message in a bottle - ship in a bottle - caught in the moment kind of poem. I sense the urgency of wanting to capture the day - the glorious moment. I wonder why you haqe written it in the past tense? It seems a work full of spontenaity and to write int he past tense almost suggests loss - that you have given up hope of trying to capture the vast blueness and its power. But this work has energy and could almost be a much longer piece as it feels like there is more you want to say about this inspirational moment. I enjoyed this - thanks
Tina
x
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joanie at 16:54 on 19 March 2006
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Tina, thank you! It's strange you mention the past tense because originally I wrote this in the present: 'I want to capture.... Perhaps I felt a sense of loss as I wrote. Mmmm.. I'm pondering now. Glad you liked it!
joanie
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James Graham at 19:35 on 19 March 2006
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‘Mighty force’ adequately sums up the sea as you have already described it in the middle verse, but the phrase still lacks something to make the reader sit up one more time before the poem ends. (The language of the first two verses certainly has that effect.) In cases like this I often dive into the thesaurus. (I wouldn’t advise you to do anything I wouldn’t do myself.) What phrase to attach to the sea in that second last line?
Let’s explore a bit. Instead of the abstract ‘mighty force’, let’s make it more concrete - think of a metaphor. Say a giant, a dragon, a monster; even a sea-monster - the sea could be described in terms of one of its most dangerous denizens. Tiger shark? There’s a shark called a megamouth. (I didn’t know that, of course; I found it in the thesaurus.) Killer whale? Octopus?
Or else let’s try for another phrase made up of adjective+noun, the same grammatically as ‘mighty force’. Angry giant. Not really. See what the thesaurus has under ‘giant’ and ‘angry’. ‘Angry’ led me to ‘irascible’ and looking this word up, found some possible choices. ‘But I knew/ I could never/ hold this surly giant…’ Still not very good. ‘Rough giant’? Mmm.
Or go for a noun+noun phrase. Under ‘strength’ in the thesaurus, as well as ‘might’ I hit on ‘depth’ - a possible choice with the sea in mind. ’But I knew/ I could never/ hold this depth and something…’ What’s that ‘something’? A word to do with energy, violence, power, wildness?
None of this may be any use to you at all. But maybe at least it shows that some rummaging in the word-hoard (and thesaurus hunting) will surely result in a phrase that fits.
James
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joanie at 19:39 on 19 March 2006
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James, you are wonderful! I have been searching in the thesaurus but not for concrete nouns. Totally fascinating! I'll have a play and be back.
Thanks.
joanie
<Added>
How about 'Leviathan'? I'm doing a bit of research!
<Added>
Yes! Definitely. I ave just found the definition: monstrous sea creature symbolizing evil in the Old Testament.
What do you think?
<Added>
I meant 'Have'!!
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DJC at 20:12 on 19 March 2006
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Joanie - yes, I've defected from PGII as this seems a more active group! I like this poem very much - there's a gentleness and simplicity to it, yet also that sense of frustration we all feel at being present in amongst a beautiful scene and not being able to capture it. I like the initial metaphor of capture and how it feeds through the poem. I guess the only bit I wasn't as sure of was the harpic and dolly bit, as it takes a little of the power away for me. But only a little. I think that, by extending the metaphor, your draw the reader through very effectively.
D.
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James Graham at 20:17 on 19 March 2006
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Just in isolation, I wasn't too keen on 'Leviathan' right away, as it's been used already a bit - in the Bible, the book by Hobbes etc. But when I see it in the context of the poem, it's amazing what a difference that makes. You could settle for 'Leviathan'. But I'd still experiment with sea-creatures, not necessarily great monstrous ones but maybe a lesser one with an accompanying adjective to heighten its wildness. (Like Ted Hughes's 'terrifying thrushes'.) Something even better might turn up.
James.
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Account Closed at 23:36 on 21 March 2006
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Hello Joanie..
I liked the simplicity in this.. and particularly the last "verse"...
Great
Andy
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Tina at 05:58 on 22 March 2006
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Hi Joanie
Ref the above postings for your Leviathan replacement what about -
slippery shoal or shoals ????
Just a thought
Tina
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joanie at 21:36 on 22 March 2006
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Thanks, Tina! I don't know; I'll play with it and see what I think.
Many thanks!
joanie
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NinaLara at 08:07 on 24 March 2006
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You have captured a moment wonderfully - as all the other comments seem to suggest.
I like the Harpic-blue, dolly green and think the second stanza is particularly strong.
Just a thought (rather than a suggestion) - do you think you need "I wanted to" at the begining? And 'I knew' at the end?
Capture a wave ...
and
But
I could never
may be stronger.
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gard at 21:38 on 26 March 2006
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Hi joanie
fab comments from James on this by the way.
I liked this poem too (more so becuase I like the sea). The first and second verse move into each with ease. I also liked the language of the first verse almost "streaming" slightly abstract but not becuase it is coherent (if you see what I mean).
Like james I am not sure about leviathan but it is your work so it is you choice and works well within that (thats just personal taste).
G
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 Brian Aird at 08:02 on 28 March 2006
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I'm having a hard job these days commenting because I'm always 'reminded' about some other work; in this case The Sea by D H Lawrence. In that piece Lawrence lists the sea's qualities such as lonely or phosphorescent or 'shaken by your own moods'. So this might give another way to say in the last verse what you think of the sea.
Anyway, I was both surprised and delighted by your description of the sea with Harpic Green and dolly-blue. I could see the two colours constantly changing with the sea's restlessness.
Brian
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joanie at 11:31 on 28 March 2006
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nina, gard, Brian... Many thanks for all your thoughts! I'll have another go with the last bit, I think.
Thanks!
joanie
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steve_laycock at 21:19 on 29 March 2006
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Hi Joanie,
I'm new to the group, so I'm a little late here.
I really like the rhythm of the first verse, and the images that shift between the grandness of the waves and the harpic is great!
I was looking for a replacement Leviathan, and thought of the Greek Titans - who rose up against the Gods - but they're a little close to a typo of Tritan, who was the Roman (I think) sea God. It's so tough, because of the structure, after such a good build up it kinda falls on this one word to summ it all up. Toughie!
thanks
steve
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joanie at 09:48 on 30 March 2006
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Thanks, Steve. I still haven't thought enough about the ending; I'll have a look at your suggestions - thank you!
joanie
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joanie at 10:07 on 30 March 2006
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A bit of research carried out! What about the new Celtic reference! As it was a Manx sea, looking across to Scotland, I think it might fit. I might have to change 'hold', though, now. Perhaps 'clutch'.
joanie
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steve_laycock at 11:56 on 30 March 2006
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I like it. I'm not sure how to say it, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing - keeps the enigma alive!
nice
steve
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