 Nell at 14:18 on 08 February 2006
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Xenny, this looks good - colour is a marvellous word for the radif - back to comment properly later.
Nell.
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 DJC at 14:31 on 08 February 2006
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Xenny - there are some wonderful, sofy, evocative images here - in many ways you are the anti-Sean (no offence to Mr F, as he does the more challenging stuff so well). It's a bit like drinking a nice warm choccy drink reading your stuff (and I mean this in the most positive way, not in a fluffy kitten sort of way). I absolutely love the phrase 'too soft to make sense' and the opening stanza. Really powerful, without being overblown. And using colour - there is so much that can be said, and you do say it well.
Just a few things - not so keen on the repetition of 'wrong'. And the fifth stanza is just a bit to simple after the profundity of the previous stanza - 'I like to take pictures in colour' is a bit limp. Perhaps something about taking photographs, what they symbolise/represent etc., might be more powerful. The idea of a photograph being a two dimensional rendering of our three dimensional world, that the photo is only one small window, chosen by the photographer and so on. I have lots of very dry books on this. And finally, the exclamation mark doesn't add anything, so I'd get rid of it.
There are some really impressive bits in this, and I think with a bit of pruning it will be a superb example of what can be done with this form.
Darren
<Added>
for 'sofy', read 'soft'. Doh.
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Xenny at 14:58 on 08 February 2006
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Thankyou Darren.
The exclamation mark was left in from a previous version which ended differently, and you're right - I think it's better without it.
The stanza with 'wrong' in it is the one I've been writing over and over. I have about 10 versions of it and none of them work. I despair of it.
I can see what you mean about the pictures bit, but I don't have anything any more profound to say on this subject without getting annoyed with myself, or worrying I'm departing from a feeling of truth. I wasn't happy with this stanza either though - so I'll see what I can do with it.
Thanks for your comments - I really appreciate them. Sofy confused me yes, but I just assumed it was a peculiar word I didn't know!
I'm way too fond of exclamation marks.
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DJC at 15:55 on 08 February 2006
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| I can see what you mean about the pictures bit, but I don't have anything any more profound to say on this subject without getting annoyed with myself, or worrying I'm departing from a feeling of truth. I wasn't happy with this stanza either though - so I'll see what I can do with it. |
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If it's not working, get rid of it. Don't be precious just because it's a full stanza.
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Xenny at 16:08 on 08 February 2006
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Yes. I need something there though - I don't like the two 'you' paragraphs one after the other as they're different periods in time. I'm still working on this - I'll see if something else comes up.
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Nell at 17:00 on 08 February 2006
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Xenny, how about changing that second line a little like this:
I like to take photos when the feeling's in colour
Then the first line could be something about back/white or negative, relating to or a metaphor for life/mood?
Nell.
<Added>
And I think you're so nearly there with this too. There are some lovely feelings and ideas here.
For me, the feelings/images in the first couplet work well, the second also. I love His hands and his mouth, three slashes of colour... ...You sparked off a rainbow, a minefield of colour... ...You sat ten feet away and wrote me a letter...
The line with two instances of 'wrong' feels a little weak, but don't strain over it. Maybe write some prose around the actual incident without thinking of radifs or rhymes then see if there's anything that prompts a different line. And remember that truth/feelings have to be allowed a little artistic licence sometimes.
Re. the ending - I keep thinking about your feelings here and can't quite grasp what you mean. You could try using more concrete images and see what happens. Imagine how you could be flooded with colour - could you turn on the TV and step through the screen into the colour? - maybe a million miles from what that final couplet means to you, but I think the reader needs something less nebulous to end with.
Just an idea - you'll have better ones.
Hope this is of some use - and I did enjoy your words and ideas - some gems here.
Nell.
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 joanie at 19:09 on 08 February 2006
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Hi Xenny. Everyone has seen this and I'm only just commenting! Sorry I'm a bit late.
I like the 'radif'! (Sounds like I've been using the word for years!) It's amazing how a word can take on different aspects of meaning: 'an island of colour', 'I like to take pictures in colour', 'you, have changed colour' all convey different ideas.
I confess that I haven't read all the comments because I'm chasing my tail today, but I have to say that I enjoyed this. I find the ending a bit difficult to fit in with the rest. Perhaps it's because the last line is shorter, I don't know.
This has left me pondering and wanting more! I must try to get mine done soon!
joanie
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Xenny at 19:48 on 08 February 2006
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Thankyou so much Nell and Joanie.
You both picked up on the ending, which I'd definitely had doubts about and changed a couple of times already. Nell, I think what I mean (though I'm bound to lose the meaning in trying to explain it) is something to do with pure distraction - latching onto something/anything intense (or with intensity). Like a kind of complete focus of attention. (I don't like how I'm talking today and I'm sorry if it's irritating to read). This doesn't come accross properly in that line I know - nebulous is a good word. Maybe it's partly like that because I'm not 100% sure of the meaning myself. Joanie, yes the rhythm is a bit funny there isn't it? I do need to change this I think.
I agree with what else you say too Nell - the bits you like are the bits I was happy with and the bits you questioned are some of the ones I've been trying to change. I'm very uncomfortable with using metaphores or symbols deliberately in poems. It's the truth thing again I think. Or a worry about coming out of the poem and thinking too much about the writing of it. Or something. Just a personal insecurity I'm sure! And they can be so effective.
Thanks again
X
p.s. Yes Joanie, hurry up ;)
No, I don't mean it - whenever you're ready of course
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DJC at 08:39 on 09 February 2006
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Xenny - how about getting rid of that stanza and swapping round stanzas 3 and 4? Just a thought.
D.
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Nell at 09:04 on 09 February 2006
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Xenny, Darren's right, couplet 6 would be a good one to end on.
Nell.
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Xenny at 09:15 on 09 February 2006
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Darren and Nell - do you mean getting rid of the last one? I like the idea of getting rid of the picture one and the last one, but I really want 4 to follow on from 3. I agree it flows well with them swapped but the poem has to make sense, even if it's only to me!
Today I will rewrite it. I will I will I will.
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Nell at 14:44 on 09 February 2006
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Xenny, I keep re-reading and I'm beginning to like that 'wrong' line - it seems to fit with the other repetitions. How about this?
I wanted to tell you your story in colour
I wanted to splatter your body with colour
We came down from the hills when our feeling was good
Those weeks were an island of colour
They got it all wrong but I know I'm not wrong
His hands and his mouth, three slashes of colour
You were painfully gentle, too soft to make sense
You sparked off a rainbow, a minefield of colour
You sat ten feet away and wrote me a letter
It's strange how your name, how you, have changed colour |
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That last line is beautifully ambiguous.
Nell.
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Xenny at 14:53 on 09 February 2006
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Oh Nell it's so much better!
I've not been able to give it any attention today and do want to look at it more. But for now, if you don't mind, I'm going to settle with your suggested version.
I also think without realising it you've made the poem closer to what it's really about. In the last line I think I was trying for some sort of escape from the rest (and also something deeper/more encompassing), but it didn't work. I think it's better that it settles on the 'it's strange...' one.
Thankyou again. You and Darren both seem to have seen this with better eyes than me.
<Added>
Some of my alternatives for the 'all wrong' line were:
They got it all wrong, I don't talk to them much
They got it all wrong but I know I'm alright
She sat in the kitchen pretending to read
He got it all wrong and his nerves are shot through
! They all irritate me no end and I think I've just looked at it too much. All I can hear now is "got it all wrong" going over and over in my head. I think I'd rather leave it for now and maybe come back to it in a few weeks or something. I'm reassured that it's grown on you anyway. Maybe I can get away with leaving it as it is.
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DJC at 15:39 on 09 February 2006
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You see, you should listen to your Auntie Nelly! ;)
(sorry Nell, couldn't resist)
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DJC at 16:00 on 09 February 2006
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And your uncle Dazza...
(not sure I'm old enough to be your uncle. Perhaps your wise older cousin...)
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Xenny at 16:09 on 09 February 2006
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I count myself lucky to be surrounded by such wisdom.
No I really do
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Nell at 16:34 on 09 February 2006
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Xenny, It was Darren mostly, but I see he's reminded you of that!
Darren, Nelly's off-limits...
NELL... *~*
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Xenny at 16:46 on 09 February 2006
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No I know it was both of you, plus some comments from the others - I find it hard to keep track of who said what though. Thanks people x
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DJC at 17:01 on 09 February 2006
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Yes, it does have certain elephantine connotations, doesn't it... oops.
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