Moebius
Posted: 28 July 2003
Word Count: 111
Summary: A sonnet - reworked from "The Path"
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On such a day as executions fall,
A day to freeze the life from beating hearts
And, leering, turn to find the sacred soul,
There on ground as cold and black as sin
Two tiny puddles, oval, silver, mute.
With stares unblinking, guileless as a child
Regarding skies so lowering, baggy eyed
As makes of Armageddon sombre sport.
For since the child sees all there is to see
And cannot turn its gaze from good or bad
Since all it sees is seen in turn by God,
Then shall our children guide the hangmans hand.
For man, made father, taking child from mate,
So does she hand him his unbending fate.
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Comments by other Members
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 fevvers at 17:10 on 29 July 2003
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Hye John
This is a lot better. And can you see how the form has taken you to places you might not have gone otherwises?
Fantastic first line, "On such a day as executions fall" and this line "Two tiny puddles, oval, silver, mute."
Three points: the couplet lets down the poem because it is such a strict form (even with it's wonderful ellisions and variations). You really need that rhyming couplet at the end and there is something about the 'ate' rhyme that seems to work here, rather than the 'ild' rhyme. Second point - you need a question mark after 'hangman's hand' and an apostrophe somewhere.
Third point - I think "It seems as if the gods would end it all" seems just a bit overly dramatic, you might have a look at toning it down a little, especially because it coems at the end of the octet.
But this is a good poem with a good ear. Did you enjoy writing the sonnet and will you write more?
Cheers
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snoozy at 21:40 on 29 July 2003
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Hey Long Jon,
I thought this was a fab poem, and especially liked the line
'Two tiny puddles, oval, silver, mute.'
Makes the water seem sweet and powerless, especially compared to all the horrible things around them.
Snoozy
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Ellenna at 21:47 on 29 July 2003
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Very atmospheric... i can almost hear a lone drum beating ...and feel cast back into the sixteenth century.Incredible!
Ellie :)
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olebut at 22:40 on 29 July 2003
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well old buddy
this is very profound and moving but nicely dark some of my influence must be rubbing off on you
I suppose it will be my round in the Butt next time you come over
take care
david
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LONGJON at 04:34 on 30 July 2003
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Hey Fevvers,
Many thanks for your comments, I appreciate your time. You are right about going to unexpected places - I put the grey matter through the mincer, I think.
Fully agree with the points you make - I'll be home tonight and will do some re-work, particularly about the "It seemed the gods would end it all," wasn't happy about it but needed to leave off for a little and let someone else have a look.
Changing to the "ate"rhythm" in the couplet is going to be interesting, and yes I did enjoy it very much and will certainly revisit the form. Possibly a related group. Need to think of a subject, perhaps the seasons, although maybe that has been done a few too many times. Perhaps the "Ages of Man." Any ideas on that?
Have also decided to rename the poem, The Path was supposed to indicate the journey of the generations, but it's a bit vague.
Again, I appreciate your thinking, you don't mince words and your analysis and viewpoints are clearly those of someone to whom poetry is important. I am certainly learning and that I enjoy.
Take care,
John P.
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LONGJON at 04:42 on 30 July 2003
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Hi Snoozy,
I love your nickname - I am guessing that you are reasonably new to the site, so if I may, welcome. They are a good bunch here, so post some of your stuff soon eh?
Thankyou for your comments, it was Fevvers who pointed me towards this form. I like it and will have a go at doing some more.
Look forward to seeing some of your work.
John P.
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LONGJON at 04:54 on 30 July 2003
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Hi Ellenna,
Generous as ever, glad you liked it. Fevvers has got me on the treadmill now, so I'll do some re-work tonight.
Take care,
John P.
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LONGJON at 05:10 on 30 July 2003
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G'day young olebut,
You do realise that this will cost you rather more than a pint of that canine medical specimen that is served in The Butt in beer mugs, don't you?
Many thanks for your comments, it is a bit dark eh?
Have sent a reply to the e-mail. Let me know what you think.
John P.
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olebut at 08:33 on 30 July 2003
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long j
msn was down last night but have replied
have a look at the sentinels my latest short and let me know what you think
ok a pint and a half
david
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fevvers at 21:13 on 30 July 2003
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I'd have another go I'm afraid. These are puddles staring as a child regarding skies so lowering, so baggy eyed you think of what? I think the reason you're going with a slightly melodramtic tone and feel here is the "sacred soul" sets it up - maybe finding a slightly different way of saying this will free up that line for you. Have a go.
Cheers
And where's my pint!?
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fevvers at 21:14 on 30 July 2003
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PS still not sure about the title - have you thought about something plainer, less 'poetic'?
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fevvers at 21:15 on 30 July 2003
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maybe a simple soul? Something that kind of tone? I don't know, what do you think?
I'll stop these serial comments
Cheers
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fevvers at 21:35 on 30 July 2003
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Sorry - one more. I think the envoi is getting there but is causing me problems. I think I see the reason but I'm not sure. This seems to me to be your rhyme scheme - this is what I can see:
FALL = A
BEATING = B ?
SOUL = A
SIN = B ?
MUTE = C
CHILD = D
EYED = D
SPORT = C
SEE = E
BAD = F
GOD = F
HAND = G
MATE = H
FATE = H
A Shakespearean or English sonnet has a rhyme scheme of
abab, cdcd, efef, gg
A Petrarchan or Italian sonnet has a rhyme scheme of
abba abba cde cde
What you seem to be working with is a hybrid of the two. Do you see how you go from ABAB (English) to CBBC (more Italian in feel). What this is doing, it seems to me here, is undermining the couple in the envoi. It might be worth going through and checking where the form slips. Also you have to be careful with you rhymes of 'beating' and 'sin' there is too much distance between them to be heard as end-rhymes (and it's cheating a teensy bit). And you lose your rhyme in the 12 line, 'hand', if this is indeed how you see the rhyme scheme.
You're doing damn well though
Cheers
<Added>
I meant CDDC not CBBC sorry
<Added>
And actually, it's 'bad' and 'hand' that rhyme isn't it? But 'see' and 'god' don't.
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Ellenna at 21:43 on 30 July 2003
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this is fascinating..may I just look over the garden wall a bit? :)..I love learning new things.
Ellie
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fevvers at 22:23 on 30 July 2003
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God, I'm sorry John but the title's bugging me. you know what I'd do if it ws me (of course you don't have to) I'd go with the tradition of having the first lines as the title "On such a day as executions fall" then lead in to the second line ignore the comma at the end of the first line you don't really need it anyway. As an editor that would make me look twice, Moebius I'm afraid wouldn't.
Another thing can you tell where geographically the speaker is in relation to the events?
I'll stop now, really.
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LONGJON at 22:55 on 30 July 2003
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G'day Fevvers
There's a Maori proverb that goes
"Ruia te taitea, kohia te kai rangatira"
and is translated as
Scatter the sapwood, gather only the heartwood (literally"eat only the food of chiefs")
I can't think of a better exposition of the comments that you have put so much effort into making, and for which my thanks. I clearly have a great deal to learn, and I am looking forward to it.
I have a couple of things I must get done this morning - as soon as they are out of the way I am coming back to this with a vengence.
Again, thanks for the time you have taken. It will not be wasted.
And come on in Ellenna !!!
John P.
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fevvers at 00:55 on 31 July 2003
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I can't think of a better description of poetry actually.
Gather only the heartwood.
Cheers
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LONGJON at 02:12 on 31 July 2003
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Hi Fevvers,
I would be delighted if you would use it. It does rather "carry the colours" of poetry doesn't it?
You really are burning the midnight oil here aren't you, & I thought I was a nighthawk.
Take care,
John P.
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LONGJON at 02:35 on 31 July 2003
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Hi Fevvers,
I've been trying to think out your question about the geographical position of the speaker, and there really isn't a speaker. Not in the sense of a lector or cantor. Rather it is intended as something from a common consciousness, a sort of "Ides of March" warning that there are some things you can do nothing about.
Hope that helps.
John P.
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LONGJON at 03:15 on 31 July 2003
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Hi Fevvers,
I've printed off your outline of the rhyme schemes, and have reworked according to theEnglish model.
What do you think/
On such a day as executions fall,
A day when beating hearts are killed by cold,
Which, leering, turns to find the sacred soul.
There on ground like sin, so black and old
Two tiny puddles, oval, silver, mute.
That stared unblinking, guileless as a child
Watching skies so lowering, despumate
As made their very spirit seem defiled.
For since the child sees all there is to see
And cannot turn its gaze from good or ill
Since all it sees is seen in turn by Thee,
Then shall our children call the hangmans’ skill?
For man, made father,taking child from mate,
So does she hand him his unbending fate.
Take care,
John P.
<Added>
Added:
Oops, wrong on line 7, should be dissolute,
not despumate.
John P.
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fevvers at 11:22 on 31 July 2003
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Hey John
When I talk of 'speaker', I'm actually referring to the narrative viewpoint. I try not to assume poems are written from the viewpoint of the writer. This speaker seems to be an omniscient speaker.
Your poems coming on great guns. I've only had a quick look but one thing immediately leaps out and that is the soul, it's too close in sound to old and cold - it's vowel rhyme not assonance working here - you need a stronger rhyme with fall I think. The rhymes are telling you something is not quite right with the soul.
cheers
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Okkervil at 19:08 on 09 June 2004
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This one was written a while ago, but I just had to say how brilliant it is! It makes me feel a good poet just reading it out. Wish I could write like this, and had Brian Blessed's voice to read it. I particularly liked the lines,
'For since the child sees all there is to see
And cannot turn its gaze from good or bad
Since all it sees is seen in turn by God,
Then shall our children guide the hangmans hand.'
And the last bit of that made me shiver. Though, t'be honest, I'm not sure if I in my witlessness understand it at all.
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