Past TImes
Posted: 07 October 2005
Word Count: 82
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Final version
in the misted middle-distance
of memories
lurk spectres
skilled in anamnesis,
ready to talk
Various workings along the way.....
I
in the misted middle-distance
of memories,
mantled in hazy apparel,
lurk spectres
skilled in anamnesis,
ready to talk
at the optimum time
II
in the misted middle-distance
of memories,
mantled in hazy apparel,
lurk spectres
waiting to talk.
III (probably final version)
in the misted middle-distance
of memories,
mantled in hazy apparel,
lurk spectres
skilled in anamnesis,
ready to talk
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Comments by other Members
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 Shika at 20:28 on 07 October 2005
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Joanie, whenever I read you work I swear to myself and say, 'Shit man, this girl can write'. I like the fact that you have used the middle distance. Because it is the most accurate description of those past times (you see?) that are ready to pop up when required. Nice one. S
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Tina at 07:51 on 08 October 2005
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Its funny Joanie but I have been thinking about writing something on a similar theme - for me such memeories are almost tangible.
Haven't quite got my head round it yet but enjoyed your writing - very compact and full of impact.
Thanks
Tina
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 James Graham at 12:49 on 08 October 2005
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Had to reach for the dictionary to check on my hazy notion of anamnesis, and found three meanings - ability to recall the past, ability to recall a previous life, and something to do with medical records. Do you mean all three, or am I being pedantic? I think I can see how all three could have a bearing on the poem - which is the sort of poem that could keep on opening up, a little enigmatic (but not too much so) and giving the impression of offering a lot in a small package, a huge range of meaning. Maybe not so much a range of abstract meaning, as a range of possible illustrations of the truth stated in the poem. Every reader's own spectre, every reader's own past.
James.
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 joanie at 14:05 on 08 October 2005
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James, thank you yet again for your valuable comments and insight. | Every reader's own spectre, every reader's own past. |
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sounds like exactly what I wanted!
Thank you.
joanie
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joanie at 14:47 on 08 October 2005
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Shika - many thanks! I'm not sure which thrills me more, the girl reference or your appreciation of my 'work'!
Thanks again.
joanie
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Ticonderoga at 15:41 on 08 October 2005
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I love this, but think it could be even simpler; the language is so evocative, and most so when simplest, that, lovely words though they are, I'd be inclined to lose 'anamnesis' and 'optimum' - for me they take the poem somewhere un-universal, which is precisely what it is!
how about as the ending:
'lurk spectres,
waiting to talk.'
Damn cheek, sorry! Fine poem, anyway.
Best,
Mike
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joanie at 18:51 on 08 October 2005
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Mike, not a cheek at all! I have posted both possibilities now; I think they take on different meanings. I could go with both, I think.
Thank you!
joanie
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James Graham at 15:40 on 09 October 2005
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Joanie, I'm going to try to persuade you to stick to your original version. First, you should keep 'ready to talk' - waiting is more passive (waiting for permission? waiting to be called? Not these spectres) whereas 'ready' is more active, slightly more sinister.
I like 'anamnesis'. It's only one hard word among otherwise simple language, but it's a key word and without it I think the poem loses some of its originality. The point about these spectres is their skill. They're experts. They're well-informed about the things we would rather forget, and they communicate these things skilfully too, much more so than we would wish. If we take the medical-records meaning of 'anamnesis' into account, the word makes the spectres seem almost professional - sort of psychic bureaucrats. All this, I think, gives a real insight into the nature of memory: there are times when our efforts to airbrush or suppress things in the past seem thwarted by some mechanism in the brain - spectre seems the best word for it - that insists we must recover some past episode whether we want to or not. 'Something' seems to be telling us, against our will, that we're not allowed to forget. For that reason, the amateur spectres in your second version don't really measure up to the force this kind of remembering can have. They need to be 'skilled in anamnesis'.
However, I think you could dispense with 'at the optimum time' and leave the reader to imagine that the spectres will choose the best (i.e. worst) moment.
Pity to water down a very insightful poem.
James.
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joanie at 15:56 on 09 October 2005
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Very wise, James, which comes as no surprise! I'm glad you like 'anamnesis'; I, too, like the idea that they are experts. I'm sure you're right - I'll try again without the last line.
Many thanks again.
joanie
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James Graham at 19:34 on 10 October 2005
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Looking at the three versions together, I think No. 3 is easily the best. Final version. Except...I begin to feel the haiku syndrome coming on - when you have a really short poem that packs a punch, why not cut it right to the bone? Leave out 'mantled in hazy apparel'? Do we need to visualise the spectres? One of the best examples of a spine-chilling sentence I can think of is: 'Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up'. (Book of Job.) Zero description of the spirit - just the word itself. This spirit might have no appearance at all; a chill in the air at most, maybe not even that, no more than a 'chilling' thought. So: 'in the misted middle distance/ of memories,/ lurk spectres/ skilled in anamnesis,/ ready to talk'. But maybe this is going too far - I'm too handy with the machete.
James.
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joanie at 20:14 on 10 October 2005
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James, I love brevity. I would be happy with the final, final version! I do appreciate your time and wisdom.
Thank you.
joanie
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James Graham at 19:39 on 11 October 2005
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This is a good one. The way this poem works is that someone reading it says, 'I know what that means', i.e. I have a personal meaning I can attach to that, I can 'illustrate' from my own life what this poem says. Obviously there wouldn't be that resonance with everyone - but spectres are not scarce.
James.
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 blp at 13:18 on 12 October 2005
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A bit controversially maybe, I like reading the sequence of possible versions and think that works very strongly as a piece. I really enjoyed reading 'In the misted middle distance' repeatedly and I think it makes a lot of sense, giving a strong sense of that mistiness, for what follows that to be slightly and subtley different each time. The last version probably is the best, and some things such as 'at the optimum time' (maybe just that) are not that great in and of themselves, but as part of a progression to the resolution of the end version, it all works - excellently in my opinion.
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joanie at 19:01 on 12 October 2005
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blp, thank you! I think your idea of reading all the versions is great. Thanks for your response.
joanie
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